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    5Dsr - initial thoughts

    Coming from an older Canon camera one thing I noticed is things haven't actually changed a whole lot (I didn't see the 5DIII gave me anything that made it worth the cost, so got Panasonic GH bodies as my "other" camera as they offered a bunch of new and useful things). Even jumping two generations is not even vaguely a science-fiction experience.

    Here's my thoughts since last Thursday, when I got the camera.

    * The files are big. Really big. I usually shoot Raw+LF JPEG so if I'm in a hurry I have a picture ready to go. After seeing JPEGs getting to over 20MB I changed that to the medium compression and they seem to top out at 13.5MB. That's still a lot!

    * The files are big. Really big. I know I said that already. While waiting for new/fast SD card to arrive I just put my Eye-Fi card in the camera, I have one of the faster ones they make (16GB Pro X2, 22MB/s writes). I assumed a big-ish buffer plus reasonable write speed would be good. It really wasn't. Shooting House Martins I sometimes just watched great things happen in front of me while waiting and waiting for the buffer to clear to allow even one more shot. Of course the buffer shrinks at high ISO too (I was at 800). It's much nicer now the faster card is here, but shooting 2-3 frames a second you will run out of buffer and most cards won't clear that for a while. (A 95MB/s max speed card will probably write about an image a second, the Eye-Fi was about 4 secs per image. Doesn't sound long but count "one thousand and one" ...)

    * On the same subject - Eye-Fi cards are supported, yea! Not sure I'll bother though as the speeds are likely to be pretty slow. Actually I had a CF adapter which allowed them to work fine in a 5DII, so not a great change (I just had it set to send the image when you protect it).

    * Oh and the buffer isn't huge, it's okay but 50% more would have been nice.

    * I hate the AF point illumination scheme. I know this is the same as the 5DIII but surely they could have moved from flashing the whole viewfinder red to the pre-5DIII scheme of just illuminating the actual points by now, how complicated can that have been? I really do dislike it a lot.

    * There's noise. If you resize down to 24MP it looks really good. If you crop in to pixels ISO 100 is your friend. Rather strangely I get mixed results at ISO 800, some are low noise and some not so good. I don't fully understand why as the illumination levels were similar.

    * There's (obviously) no EVF and unfortunately the rear screen isn't good in bright light (my RX100 is clearly better, for example). Also I shoot with my left eye and it does get smeared very easily by my face, perhaps they could have coated it with something to help with that? I do like optical viewfinders, but miss in-viewfinder image review.

    * Battery life is okay. About twice as good as I was expecting from what people were saying. I shot 16GB of pics on my first outing and used about 1/3 of the battery. The first thing I do with a camera is turn off image review, which probably helps. (I'm looking through the viewfinder so not interested most of the time, I can push the play button as I take the camera away from my face.) It also takes 5DII batteries

    * I don't really have the issues with blurry images I was expecting. Most of the blurry ones are just subject movement vs. shutter speed. I'm now not worried about hand-holding the camera.

    * I've used DXO 10 for raw processing so far as people seemed unhappy with the results from LR (which I also have) on 5Ds/sr images. If you turn on DXO's whizzy Prime noise reduction (which seemed like a good idea) it goes from being slow (with 16-20MP images) to somewhat glacial. I have a fast computer.

    * I really like the Fine Detail Picture Style, it's a big improvement on Standard, but I think the defaults need some tweaking. I'll have to work on that but maybe less contrast and a teeny bit more of some other stuff? At the end of the day I mostly work from raw, but having good JPEGs really doesn't hurt.

    * It really really needs a custom option to just save the Raw data from inside the 1.3x/1.6x crop area when using crop modes, otherwise they are just frame-lines and not much use. Only saving 40% the data gives 2.5x the buffer clearing speed and would make it much better for shots you'll crop anyway.

    * I don't think the single-point AF is any faster than the 5DII, just maybe more accurate.

    * I think it drives my 85 1.2 II focusing more slowly than the 5DII, not idea why but it really does seem to. Less power to the lens? I have no idea.

    * I haven't tried the video yet. Reading the manual I was worried as Canon originally said it read all the pixels (presumably in a 16:9 crop) for video, but the manual warns of moire, which I find usually means a camera is skipping pixels.

    * I'd have liked the full manual printed, as after the first couple of days I don't need the basic manual as it's the obscure stuff I'll probably want to check later. Also as usual the manual does a rubbish job of explaining a lot of the stuff. It gets it over quite well, but doesn't explain it enough - I have a reasonable idea what most things do, but a newcomer to Canon would wonder about many things and have to start Googling.

    * The Spot Meter only works at the centre of the frame, it can't be set to be at the active AF point.

    * The anti-flicker mode borrowed from the 7DmkII (to solve problems shooting at high speeds with lights that are flickering) is a thing you may only need very rarely, but if you do it's great to have.

    * It would be nice to have more choices of what to program onto the programmable buttons. All I've done so far is "Crop" onto M.fn, more through lack choices of what you can program onto them than anything.

    * Live View (which I hardly ever use in DSLRs) is odd. The screen goes blank for over a second doing a Live-View shot. I'd assume it was doing a PDAF cycle but can't see any option for that. Surely all it has to do is an EFCS to start the exposure, use the mechanical shutter to end it and then open the shutter again, but it seems to me it's probably moving the mirror. What am I missing? (I don't mind if I end up feeling stupid as I did look at the manual.)
    Update - I had someone try it with a 5Ds and it really is that slow, it isn't me doing something stupid. It appears the exposure happens just after you press the shutter, so what's it doing for the next second plus?

    * Cropping plays havoc with the DoF, so if you think you'll be doing a fairly big crop you have to get your brain in gear over the aperture choice.

    * I haven't seen any moire, so happy with my choice of the "r" so far.

    * There's a lot of resolution, even non-50MP approved lenses (e.g. the 24-105) do really nicely. So far I've used the 16-35 f4 IS, 24-105 and the 85 1.2 II, assorted others are in the pipeline. No disappointments to date.

    * The files are big. Really big. Hmmm... that sounds familiar from somewhere?!? It means I can't zoom through them checking what's good and what isn't at the speed I'd like. I'm investigating software that might speed this up. The trouble is you often need to view at full-res to see if the focus is good and movement blur not present.

    I've got some nice images and it's a keeper, but not exciting like a GH4, just a useful tool.

    I haven't Micro Focus Adjusted my lenses yet, as Reikan say the next beta of Focal Pro will support the 5Dsr so I'll wait for that. I did shoot the 85/1.2 wide-open and it's usable, but I suspect I'll mostly avoid challenging focus/DoF situations until I've adjusted it.
    Attached Files
    Last edited by DrJon; 04-08-2015, 14:50. Reason: Added Live View update and a few more thoughts

    #2
    Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

    Plenty of detail in the House Martin Jon. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the camera
    Peter

    Feel free to browse my
    Website : www.peterstockton-photography.co.uk
    Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_original_st/

    Comment


      #3
      Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

      Excellent, detailed thoughts - much appreciated Jon
      James
      James Boardman Woodend
      www.jameswoodend.com

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        #4
        Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

        The House Martin image above is a 2k wide crop from the original image, shot at ISO 800 using a 24-105 @105mm (1/2000 f5.6). It got shrunk in several senses to make the 97k image size limit here (which was quicker than posting it somewhere else and linking it in). This should be actual sensor pixels:
        Attached Files
        Last edited by DrJon; 03-08-2015, 19:31.

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          #5
          Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

          We are preparing an article on the EOS 5DS and 5DS R for the next issue of EOS magazine.

          I would be interested to hear from forum members about why they have bought one of these camera, or are thinking of buying one.

          In the April-June 2015 issue we wrote:

          "The EOS 5DS and 5DS R are niche cameras created to meet specific needs. They are designed for professional photographers who need images which can be – to quote Canon – “printed to extraordinary sizes without experiencing degradation”.

          "We see the cameras being used for studio photography, landscapes, architecture, weddings, fashion and portraiture.

          "The cameras are less suited to news, sport and wildlife photography. Here, the EOS 5D Mark III or 7D Mark II are better choices."

          Do you agree or disagree with these views?
          Robert
          robert@eos-magazine.com

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            #6
            Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

            I bought one because:

            (1) Lots more resolution for my Panoramas, where it would work well and avoid me having to stitch lots of photographs to go to higher resolution.

            (2) Noticeable jump in the AF system as I'm coming from a 5DmkII.

            (3) The small buffer on the 5DmkII got quite annoying on occasions.

            (4) The quiet modes will be nice, the 5DmkII doesn't do quiet.

            (5) I also lengthen all my lenses as I get a free APS sensor camera. Since I wouldn't want to carry a 7DmkII as I'd always want the FF camera with me (if I was just taking one Canon camera, plus if it was two the GH4 would be the other one). A lot cheaper to add this to the 300/2.8 than getting a 500/4 II. You could probably leave a lens or two behind due to the extra cropping ability (or not buy them in the first place).

            (6) It also turns prime lenses into handy tri-focal-length lenses with crop marks in the viewfinder. Less of a pain if you're just carrying primes. (Adding a 24-x just in case is a lot of extra weight.)

            (7) A more minor one: AF down to f8 with PDAF (but only down to -2EV alas) and f11 in Live View (but only to 0EV).

            I'd say the big problem for news and sport is the file sizes (70MB Raws, 13-21MB JPEGs), which act against fast workflows. The main issues for sport and wildlife are the burst rate and buffer size (the latter could be significantly improved by only saving the cropped area of the sensor when cropping is enabled, it's crazy this isn't at least an option).

            I don't think there is anything that inherently prevents people using it for those things, it's even very good on a number of counts. It may well have a whizzier AF system than the 1Dx (as it has the newer 150K pixel tracking sensor, which the 5DmkIII doesn't get in any form). If you could get the settings right shooting the "medium" JPEGs, which would be fine for news/sport, it does give a buffer of over 1,000 images (or so it says). Though there will be a problem if you subsequently need to raise the shadows a lot...

            If you don't have to do a high-speed workflow, plus don't hate having to deal with the big files, I struggle to see where it wouldn't be as good as or a better choice than a 5DmkIII. Except acquisition cost and video when you want an earphone socket.

            I think image quality is better than either a 5DmkIII or 7DmkII, not sure that matters for news and not for a lot of sport.

            In my case the 5Dsr would be second choice for news, first choice for sport/wildlife if a longer lens is needed or the light is low (second otherwise). I wouldn't rent/buy a 5DmkIII or 7DmkII as an alternative for those uses.

            So in summary I'd agree it isn't the ultimate choice for professionals in those three fields, but it's usable for all three, especially for people who aren't really pushing things. For news if you had sense you'd have a GH4 or A7s, for reasonably well lit sport and a lot of wildlife the 7DmkII as it lengthens lenses and the burst rate is good, the 1Dx would come next or first if the light was less good, the location easy to use larger lenses (especially if you're not paying for them) or the subjects fairly close. All IMHO.

            P.S. nice piece on the 5Dsr generally and examples of shooting wildlife with it...
            This review focuses (pun intended!) on the real world performance of the Canon 50MP 5DS R. Showing shot details in real world shooting situations, a camera o...

            "Canon 5DS R Real World Review by Michael Tapes"
            Last edited by DrJon; 04-08-2015, 15:18. Reason: Lots of typos, adding better explanations

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              #7
              Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

              Here's a (very handy) table of memory card write speeds for the 5Ds/sr:


              BTW I went with the "SanDisk Extreme Pro 95MB/s 128GB" for my 5Dsr and their tested 71MB/s write speeds seems about correct to me.

              They also measured the USB3 read speed of the camera and confirmed I was correct in using a separate USB3 reader rather than pratting about writing up the camera to the computer to empty the card.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

                Interesting & detailed first impressions - thanks for putting it together.

                I'm a 5DMKII user as well and although tempted by both 5DS & 5DSR, I'm really waiting to see if the 5DX is anything more than rumour but also with half an eye on some of the more "sci-fi" offerings from the likes of Olympus for mountain hikes.
                Scott

                500px flickr

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                  #9
                  Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

                  I've had a 5DS for a few weeks now, and it's a great camera, so much pixel real estate, which means you can aggressively edit (if needed ) without the degradation I found in previous bodies, I hate HDR images, and dislike 'blended' images, much preferring grads and/or tweaking in photoshop, I found on some long exposures the other evening, I was able to drag back shadow detail without the subsequent increase in noise you could get with smaller file sizes. The other big plus for me is being able to use live view with an almost crystal clear image on the rear screen with a 10 stopper in place, much better than having to remove the filter every time you want to re-compose. And the ability to set the timer in B mode in camera is bliss. Downside is the huge file sizes, typically 150mb tiffs.
                  Last edited by Les McLean; 31-08-2015, 19:25.
                  Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colours and your images will stir the soul. - Jack Dykinga
                  Light makes photography. Embrace light. Admire it. Love it. But above all, know light. Know it for all you are worth, and you will know the key to photography- George Eastman

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                    #10
                    Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

                    I agree with your statement Robert regarding the 5DS being less suited to wildlife/sports etc, I've tried shooting red kites with the 5DS, and it can't match the 7D2, the frame rate isn't anywhere near, and even with fast cards, the buffer doesn't clear as quickly as the 7D2 (possibly due to file size). Less obvious, the 5DS doesn't have the little push lever (next to the rear joystick) that the 7D2 has, meaning you can adjust the focusing modes quickly and on the fly on the 7d2 and not on the 5DS.
                    Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colours and your images will stir the soul. - Jack Dykinga
                    Light makes photography. Embrace light. Admire it. Love it. But above all, know light. Know it for all you are worth, and you will know the key to photography- George Eastman

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

                      So help me out here guys, which do I buy for mostly moving wildlife using a 100-400 Canon EF L IS or a 10-18 EFS IS for landscapes and macro mostly hand held? I love my 550d but want better low light performance for chasing Barn Owls in the gloaming and better auto focusing on a moving object, not the grass or the cow stood nearby.
                      Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way

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                        #12
                        Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

                        Originally posted by tigerburnie View Post
                        So help me out here guys, which do I buy for mostly moving wildlife using a 100-400 Canon EF L IS or a 10-18 EFS IS for landscapes and macro mostly hand held? I love my 550d but want better low light performance for chasing Barn Owls in the gloaming and better auto focusing on a moving object, not the grass or the cow stood nearby.
                        7DmkII I guess... although there's the question of budget and the low-light performance isn't stellar:

                        ...but it's an improvement on the 550D and the AF is a big jump. Also the 10-18 won't work on a full-frame body.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

                          Thanks Jon, I think. I still think I might go for 5DSR though.
                          Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way

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                            #14
                            Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

                            Originally posted by tigerburnie View Post
                            So help me out here guys, which do I buy for mostly moving wildlife using a 100-400 Canon EF L IS or a 10-18 EFS IS for landscapes and macro mostly hand held? I love my 550d but want better low light performance for chasing Barn Owls in the gloaming and better auto focusing on a moving object, not the grass or the cow stood nearby.
                            I think the 7DII is a better choice than the 5DSR for that. For a start, with the right CF card, you can shoot 10 fps virtually non-stop with the 7DII, which is great when trying to take shots of flying birds. Don't forget, if you move to a full frame, you'll lose the extra distance provided by the crop factor on the APS-C body you've got (i.e. your 100-400 stops being 160-640). Yes, you'll be able to crop much tighter thanks to the pixel count on the 5DSR, but you'll be trying to focus on a smaller target in the first instance (although the 5DSR has a 'crop' mode which gives you an image the same size as an APS-C camera, I don't think it presents it in the view finder in that way, so you're trying to 'see' a smaller target).
                            Tony.
                            https://www.flickr.com/eightbittony

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                              #15
                              Re: 5Dsr - initial thoughts

                              Great info guys, I really don't know and that's why I value your thoughts. I've recently retired, so this may be my last "major" purchase body wise and would like to make it a bit sort of future proof and improve quality at the same time.
                              Hanging on in quiet desperation is the English way

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