Re birds on feeders.

[Guest]

From Daisy M's post where it's stated that shots of birds on feeders aren't loved on here etc etc;

It seems that we are still on that recent debate/argument of what is a valid shot and what isn't.I posted one taken at Slimbridge,and I really don't care that there were no comments, I didn't post for that.My point is not everyone can access places on a regular basis,where you get birds on branches and with the benefit of a super telephoto etc.

I took my shot from the Willow Hide,and if you know it,there isn't that much space in there.The right hand corner was full of mainly chaps with binos,muttering about not having seen any Water Rails that day so far.

I stood square on more centrally,and decided to use the 100-400L mk2 that TonyT had kindly lent me so I could get shots I wouldn't be able to unless travelling a good distance from home,having to rely on either Tony for a lift,or a coach trip.This type of shot is still new to me,and takes just as much technique/practice etc as any other.They are still wild birds,taking advantage of food put out for them.

My recent trip to Calke was designed to give me some experience of wild bird shots before going to Slimbridge,and it paid off.

As far as I'm concerned,birds on feeders are valid shots,in that I got satisfaction taking them and from the results,also from having to alter settings"on the fly" to get what I intended to.In order to not upset/annoy the pickier forum regulars,I will be careful in future to not post feeder shots,which would be a waste of my time.I'm currently awaiting an appointment for surgery and can spend my time more productively on street photography and related subjects,and posting the odd few on here.

I will carry on with bird photography as and when.

[antoeknee]

Well the old thorny issue. Personally I've no issue with 'feeder' images. They may not be my favourite images but they still require some skill from the photographer.

Keep posting them.

[TonyT]

Thanks for the kind Comments Roy, I must admit I am not a lover of feeders or other man made objects in wildlife shots but that just me I like it natural... having said that I loved the ones of the Kestrels nesting in the round alcove a while back.

[2Beers]

It's no different from those shots where the branch is laden with peanut butter or a hazelnut to tempt down squirrels so therefore shots of birds etc on feeders should be treated the same

[Guest]

It's no different from those shots where the branch is laden with peanut butter or a hazelnut to tempt down squirrels so therefore shots of birds etc on feeders should be treated the same

Thanks Alex,if only they were,but unfortunately they are not,at least by some members it seems.

The macaw shot of mine that the magazine published last year wouldn't have had the same impact if I hadn't given it a walnut to tackle in order to get the shot in the first place.

To me,"feeder" shots are just as valid as any others.It could also be argued that shots of street performers who pose when they see a lens are just as valid as un-posed ones,or drivers of steam locos who put on extra steam for the cameras are as valid as ones without.

Living as I do without access to wild birds in gardens,any opportunities to get shots with,or without feeders in shot,are taken when I get the chance.

[Dave_S]

Its mainly the 'purists', and stuffy competition judges that don't like birds on feeders, and there is a definite snob element to it. These same people will put 'bait' down to attract birds, or erect a branch or similar close to the feeder, as a 'stopping off point' for birds, so as that they can get a shot, that appears natural when it isn't. A great many shots, in the so called 'natural environment', are actually 'stage managed' by baiting. Nothing wrong with that except that it is likely some of these people that will be among those that decry feeder shots. Are they not the same birds that we see in the wild?. I photograph birds, both in the wild, and in my garden, and yes on the feeders too, and yes I also have a small branch attached to the feeder station, and make no secret of it when I post an image on the photo group that I run . I spend both time and money encouraging birds into my garden, and even use a pop-up hide. I also have an old log in the garden, on which I will place feed, and photograph the birds feeding on it. Its a sad fact of life that snobbery exists in many hobbies. I used to race sailing dinghies, and snobbery existed there too, photography is no different. Here's a shot taken just a few days ago, in the garden. The bird is sitting on the small branch attached to the feed station, awaiting his turn on the feeder.

Goldfinch. by Dave, on Flickr

[Dave_S]

And another, even more recent. Same small branch attached to the feeder station, which is just out of the frame to the left. A totally stage manages shot.

Greenfinch by Dave, on Flickr

[colin C]

I have fond memories of bird feeders, that's where I started my bird photography.

First on the feeder, then on nearby branches and then flying to the feeder. It's a good way to develop and then hone your bird photography skills, without wasting a lot of time trying to hunt down the li'll critters in the first place. I made plenty of mistakes with shutter speed and lack of depth of field, but I learn't from my mistakes and those valuable lessons are still with me.

[Guest]

Thanks Dave and Colin.I'll take more bird shots in the future,and if some happen to be on feeders,or branches etc that have been placed next to a feeder,I will still consider them to be just as valid.

[Daisy M]

My bird set up. by David Miller, on Flickr

Roy above is my pathetic set up for feeding & attracting birds to my garden, excuse my compost bins behind the set up. My hide is solid & moveable & almost all of my shots come from me within, the branch above the feeders is where I get most of my shots, so they are not actually "birds on the feeders", but very close. The branch gets changed regularly trying to put one up that is covered in moss, so again another artificial set up, but the shots do not have the feeders visible. the two hollowed out logs (one suspended & the other on the trunk) are ideal for shots as you cannot see the food deep down inside, but get a shot of the birds resting on a piece of log. So okay feeders are frowned on, but it is still a very artificial set up, but great for learning purposes..

[Trev B]

Roy, I think you are getting the wrong end of the stick. There is nothing wrong whatsoever in baiting an area to get a shot - we all do it. What is frowned upon is the bird actually on the feeder, when with a little observation, understanding of your subject and patience you can get the bird on a near-by branch or twig rather than hanging on half-a-pound of peanuts. Birds and animals are very much creatures of habit - they use the same flight paths and tracks. Lets take your picture of the tits on the feeder at Slimbridge, correct me if I'm wrong but that feeder is the one to the left of the Willow Hide that's hanging in a small tree. If you had noticed most of the birds that were feeding from it before they landed on the feeder would have perched in the tree - making sure the coast was clear, pussy was not hiding in the bushes. More often than not they will perch on the same branch or twig on every flight in. This is where you get your shot, watch the pattern of the birds flying in, note where they land - focus on that point, and you got a natural looking shot of your subject. Let me give you an example while I'm writing this there's a Great-spotted Woodpecker feeding on my nut feeder. It keeps coming in every five or six minutes or so, with the same flight path. It come out of the woodland, lands on a dead stump, then onto the lower branch of the Beech tree before hopping onto the feeder. If I wanted to photograph that woodpecker, I would set camera up either focused on the dead stump, or branch in the tree, not the feeder. If you have access to a feeder just spend a little time watching the birds movements as they come and go, I'm sure you will see what I mean.
Wildlife photography not only needs an understanding of your camera, but more importantly an understanding of your subject - their habits, lifestyle etc.etc.
Only at the beginning of this month I was out on the heathland adjacent to my home where I met someone with a camera and tele lens - obviously a Christmas present. He informed me he was looking for Nightjar's, he had a packet of seed with him, that he told me he had placed on a near-by log to attract them. I had to inform him that Nightjar's are summer visitors to our shores and in any case they are insectivorous feeders- they feed on flying insects, not seed. I don't think he believed me, but I left him to it.
I say to everyone wildlife photography is a fascinating pastime but remember you are intruding into their world - learn about them, have an understanding of their lives.
Hope this is of some help - Best of luck

[Guest]

My bird set up. by David Miller, on Flickr

Roy above is my pathetic set up for feeding & attracting birds to my garden, excuse my compost bins behind the set up. My hide is solid & moveable & almost all of my shots come from me within, the branch above the feeders is where I get most of my shots, so they are not actually "birds on the feeders", but very close. The branch gets changed regularly trying to put one up that is covered in moss, so again another artificial set up, but the shots do not have the feeders visible. the two hollowed out logs (one suspended & the other on the trunk) are ideal for shots as you cannot see the food deep down inside, but get a shot of the birds resting on a piece of log. So okay feeders are frowned on, but it is still a very artificial set up, but great for learning purposes..

Looks a good set-up,if I had a garden it's probably what I'd go for too.

[Guest]

Trev;Yes it was the Willow Hide,but almost in the middle of it looking straight ahead.The birds were perching on the bushes first,but the tangle of twigs etc was far too messy for a clear view,which is why I went for the feeder instead.Just bear in mind this subject is new to me and I'm still learning.

I'm not getting the wrong end of the stick as you put it;Photography is,or should be,something that people do in their own way,and not"one size fits all".My objection is that merely because a minority of people on here dismiss a shot or shots just because it doesn't fit their view on what is and isn't"ideal"they shouldn't be effectively dictating as to another persons' way of doing things.

If I go on a shoot with Tony and birds on feeders are all that's available,then I will continue to take them,and to post them here from Flickr.I'll accept advice of course on the techniques for getting better shots of the birds,on feeders or otherwise.

As in the past,it seems you and I will have to agree to disagree and without any hard feelings.Thanks for your good luck wishes,and yes a lot of what you say has helped.

[Dave_S]

We are all different in our likes, and dislikes Roy, which is as it should be, or life would be very boring indeed. I have been into photography for in excess of 60 years, and have always taken photos to please me. If other people happen to like them, then that is a bonus. I have never taken shots with a view to seeing them in a magazine, or to please some so called club competition "judge". A few years back I joined a photography club (which I have long since left) with the idea of sharing my interest with like minded people. During this time I discovered what a subjective nonsense the competitions were, with the same photos being submitted at different times, placed before a different "judge", with the marks awarded, and the comments made by each "judge" being completely different. Why?, because they are human beings, and each with his or her personal preferences. There are no hard and fast rules, apart from what they brainwash judges with, on their "judges" course. In some cases the 'Rule of thirds' can be broken, and still produce a pleasing picture. Too much adherence to the so-called rules, expected by "judges" can stifle innovation, and creativity, create clone photographers all adopting the same style. I can appreciate good photo of a bird, whether it be on feeder, on a branch attached to a feeder, or truly in the wild. If a shot presents itself, whether it be on feeder, drainpipe, or whatever , then grab it and don't worry about those that will look down their noses at it. Enjoy your photography in whatever way pleases you.

[Guest]

Thanks Dave,wise words!

I've thought about joining a local camera club,and decided it wasn't for me.I'm lucky in that I can have days out with TonyT from the forum,and get to places that I wouldn't usually be able to get to.

I do enjoy my photography,and will continue to do so.Yes,it's nice to get the odd thumbs up from people here,but I don't post shots for their benefit.If I get constructive advice,all the better.