Newpaper not paying for images used...

[captureasecond]

Hello All,

I have had some images printed as a half page spread in a regional newspaper. The newspaper is now telling me that I will not be paid as I am a "reader". I e-mailed them the images and they accepted them, in the same way that I have done with other publications on several occasions.. At no point did I feel that I had to ask specifically for payment. They sell their newspaper, but appear unwilling to pay for the content as I did not specifically ask for payment...

Your thoughts please?

Keith

[Trevoreast]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

Your thoughts please?

I'm afraid that's just how things are, they love citizen journalism big time.

Most/all have T&Cs for reader submissions.

If you wanted paid you should have said, in today's market they would probably refused.
I hope this doesn't seem like a rude question:
In the unlikeley event, they volunteered to pay you, without you asking, what rate would you have asked for ?

Trev

[norfolkvilla]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

Hi, the same thing happened to me a few years ago; I did a few words and enclosed a picture of a record breaking carp from a lake in Kent; This was a local newspaper and they used my story and picture; after a few weeks I rang the editor regarding payment, he said that I should have arranged payment prior to sending the story in; I think the point is this: if you are a "reader" just contributing something to the paper then you won't be paid, if you are submitting a story and "news" picture then you need to contact the editor (story or pictures editor) BEFORE submitting anything;

Most editors are fair and will pay you as long as they know and agree to you submitting the picture beforehand, the editor in my case must have felt sorry for me because he sent me a cheque after my phone call!

[norfolkvilla]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

Hi, the same thing happened to me a few years ago; I did a few words and enclosed a picture of a record breaking carp from a lake in Kent; This was a local newspaper and they used my story and picture; after a few weeks I rang the editor regarding payment, he said that I should have arranged payment prior to sending the story in; I think the point is this: if you are a "reader" just contributing something to the paper then you won't be paid, if you are submitting a story and "news" picture then you need to contact the editor (story or pictures editor) BEFORE submitting anything;

Most editors are fair and will pay you as long as they know and agree to you submitting the picture beforehand, the editor in my case must have felt sorry for me because he sent me a cheque after my phone call!

[colin C]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

There are so many photographers only too willing to see their images in print for free, that it has become the norm. The same criteria exists for image libraries, where photographers are happy for their images to be sold for pence.

One of the downsides of the digital phenomena.

Colin

[foursome]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

I find it’ s a never ending battle trying to keep track of my photographs. I submit regularly to local papers (who pay very little) but they often use the photographs in other editions or other papers in the group which I don’t see and which they don’t tell me about.
Other photographers keep an eye out for me in their area, as I do for them around here. I spotted one photo printed about 10x8 inches across two pages in a glossy magazine at the dentist. I sent the magazine a bill for £100 which they reluctantly paid.
The June edition of a farming paper has a centre spread with seven of my photos which I wouldn’t have known about if a friend hadn’t told me. There are probably a lot of my photos used which I don’t hear about. I could rant on about this for hours.

[Trevoreast]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

I could rant on about this for hours.

I know what you mean.

I posted a rant on this subject, late last night , when I got up this morning, I decided to "moderate myself" and delete it.

Trev

[foursome]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

The NUJ website http://www.londonfreelance.org/feesg...on=Photography gives a lot of information on what to charge clients. The words snowball and hell come to mind with regard to my customers though. I did hear of one photographer who would charge according to the number of steps in the foyer. I think it was £1000 per step.

[celtex]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

I have submited a number of pics this year to two of my local papers along with weekely match reports (field hockey) some are mine others are from other members of the club - all good pics mind. Neither paper will pay, it is just too easy for them to get pics for nothing. They used to have their own in-house TOG who would attend some of our games, but they don't bother anymore as they can rely on the sport's participants sending them in for free and these days the quality is easy to get.

One paper will at least publish the name of the photographer, as long as I ask them to, the other wont even do that.

Ian

[akimages]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

If you're submitting images to a newspaper then you you need to be explicit about what you expect in return and how you wish the image to be used. As the 'creator' of an image, you are automatically the copyright holder and therefore have full control over how, when and where it can be displayed. However, the more restrictions you place on it's use, the less likely it is to be used! You should also complete the metadata, especially the IPTC section. In this way you can clearly specify that you want a credit (your name) displayed with the image and you can also add a phrase such as: NO UNPAID USE, this makes it absolutely clear to anyone opening the image about your intentions and don't forget to include your contact details.

The best approach with local newspapers is to contact them before you even have an image to submit. Explain to them that you specialise in one area, sport for instance, and that your images are of such a quality that you expect payment in return and then offer to negotiate terms and conditions and a payment structure. That way when you have something topical to submit both parties will be clear on how to proceed and the whole process will be quicker and hassle free, which is exactly what a picturedesk will want and expect.

You also have to be realistic, as mentioned in previous posts the digital era has brought about a huge number of 'readers submissions' to local press, who of course actively encourage this interaction with it's readership as it is usually submitted freely. In addition to this many regional newspapers are struggling, my local daily paper becomes a weekly publication from next week! Many photographers also overvalue their work and expect disproportionate rates, they also forget that newspapers have nothing to lose by saying 'no' if terms are not favourable.

If you have an end goal and are trying to break into something by getting your images into print, then you need to weigh up how much and how quickly you want this to happen and set your terms accordingly. If this is not the case then simply do not supply any further images.

Hope you have worked out what's best for you!

Andy

[Rich735]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

If you're submitting images to a newspaper then you you need to be explicit about what you expect in return and how you wish the image to be used. As the 'creator' of an image, you are automatically the copyright holder and therefore have full control over how, when and where it can be displayed. However, the more restrictions you place on it's use, the less likely it is to be used! You should also complete the metadata, especially the IPTC section. In this way you can clearly specify that you want a credit (your name) displayed with the image and you can also add a phrase such as: NO UNPAID USE, this makes it absolutely clear to anyone opening the image about your intentions and don't forget to include your contact details.

The best approach with local newspapers is to contact them before you even have an image to submit. Explain to them that you specialise in one area, sport for instance, and that your images are of such a quality that you expect payment in return and then offer to negotiate terms and conditions and a payment structure. That way when you have something topical to submit both parties will be clear on how to proceed and the whole process will be quicker and hassle free, which is exactly what a picturedesk will want and expect.

You also have to be realistic, as mentioned in previous posts the digital era has brought about a huge number of 'readers submissions' to local press, who of course actively encourage this interaction with it's readership as it is usually submitted freely. In addition to this many regional newspapers are struggling, my local daily paper becomes a weekly publication from next week! Many photographers also overvalue their work and expect disproportionate rates, they also forget that newspapers have nothing to lose by saying 'no' if terms are not favourable.

If you have an end goal and are trying to break into something by getting your images into print, then you need to weigh up how much and how quickly you want this to happen and set your terms accordingly. If this is not the case then simply do not supply any further images.

Hope you have worked out what's best for you!

Andy

I have been supplying sports (football) pictures to my local paper and getting paid a small fee for them for quite a few years and then it got very frustrating because I would send the pictures with all the IPTC data filled in not only with all my details but details of the picture etc. and they still got it wrong and credited my pictures to another Photographer on many occasions, when I sent the invoices in they did not pay for all the pictures claiming again they were from the other Photographer, after complaining to them about this on more than one occasion eventually they stopped paying me altogether and over several months of non-payment I stopped sending pictures.
I told them unless they pay for all the pictures that were clearly mine and all the ones that were outstanding then I would take them to court and this I eventually did using an Online Court Claim System and then they still ignored my claim and eventually after time spell of about five months they have only paid half the amount of the £1450.00p owed and it still is on-going process, I even have a Judgment against them be it is still very difficult to get my money.
I am a NUJ Member and it looks like I will have to contact them to see if they can help.

Rich

[Nathaniel]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

I have just had a few pics of mine, from the Diamond jubillee celebrations, accepted for publication by the local Press. No payment involved. More info when I see the pics in the papers

[Deva32]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

As a retired newspaperman I can confirm that newspapers, especially the locals, are going through hard times and many do not even use bona fide freelance photographers any more.
They will happily use contributed photos, and even encourage them,as long as they are good enough, but the contributor should be advised at the time that no payment would be made for publication.
That way there would be no battles later for payment.

[Andywsurf]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

In terms of "favourable terms", and overvaluing work, what would be sensible in terms of prices charged? I am beginning to look into this as I like to cover sporting events - tennis, football, sailing, actions sports such as windsurfing and kitesurfing, amongst others. A number of my photo's have been published in the local papers but I have never asked for payment as I still regard myself as a learner. However, hopefully as I get better, I would like to explore the possibility of payment. Thoughts and suggestions greatly appreciated!

Another Andy

[akimages]

Re: Newpaper not paying for images used...

If you want to get a feel for what newspapers and other publications expect to pay for images then the easiest way is to navigate your way to one of the editorial image libraries such as Getty: Sport. Once here you will see that there are a number of factors that affect how much is charged such as readership numbers, position and size of image etc. What you should do is choose an image similar to the one's you supply and follow the system all the way through, choosing the appropriate options, you will then end up with an idea of how much your image is worth.

As far as waiting until your images are good enough before you start charging, ask yourself this question. "If I was charging for this image, would the newspaper still use it?" If the answer is yes then the image is of sufficient quality or sufficiently newsworthy to justify payment. If they are already publishing your images then they are obviously of value to the publication and therefore deserve recompense.

Many amateurs think, (I define 'amateur' as someone whose main source of income is not derived from photography and has nothing to do with competence) , in my humble opinion, that digital photography is cost free compared to the days of film and prints. Therefore they are quite happy to supply images for nowt. I prefer to use a business model. To simplify matters: a digital camera has a finite life and many parts are serviceable. So, if my camera's shutter is rated at 100,000 activations before expected replacement, then every time I press the shutter I have reduced it's life by 1/100,000. So the cost per shot (for the shutter only) is 1/100,000th of the cost of the replacement shutter. So every shot is costing me money. At some point I will expect total failure of my camera or it reaches a point where it's uneconomical to repair or it becomes obsolete. Let’s say this is 5 years for my particular camera. Therefore my camera depreciates in value by 1/5th each year and at the end of the fifth year I can expect to have to replace it, so if I paid £2500 for it then after two years it’s cost me £1000 and has depreciated to a value of £1500. So it’s a cost of about £10 a week, regardless of how often I use it. Now we are in to the serious business of lenses, workstation, laptop, backup media, flashguns, tripods, monopods etc.which again all have finite lives and serviceable components. Now we can start to add the cost of the consumables; memory cards, card readers, batteries, battery chargers, electricity, bags etc. to name but a few. Getting the picture?

Now you’ve reached the stage where the newspaper asks you to cover an event. How do you get there? Drive? Does your garage give you free petrol? How much does it cost to run and maintain your car? You’re on the touchline now. Surrounded by competitors and members of the public. Got any insurance?

If it’s worth publishing it should be paid for.

Andy.