New flasher

[r.rogers]

Strange title I know but it made me smile

I finally decided it was about time I got a speedlite for my 40d as I was not impressed with the pop up on the camera. However I have not done much flash photography so I need some advice. I have looked at the 430ex 2, which is about the right price and has the basic features I am looking for. I would appreciate any comments or alternatives. Thanks in advance.

[2Beers]

Re: New flasher

Have a look at the yongnuo 565 or the yongnuo 568EX

[S_J_P]

New flasher

It depends on what you after really.

If you want something which will work flawlessly, integrate into past, present, and future cameras, be robust and well made, reliable, and all together trouble free, then go for a Canon 'gun.

If you're willing to forgo one or two of these attributes, then you can save a lot of cash by going for a third-party 'gun (such as the Yongnuo's already mentioned, Nissin, Metz, or another third-party flash).

After going for a Nissin flash which died after 13 months I went for a Canon 'gun and am thoroughly happy with it, but I am considering a Yongnuo YN568EX as a second unit now I have the reliability of the Canon as first duty.

I would say that I'd avoid the Canon 430 as a prime 'gun though as it's power is a little limited (around 5m at f/8 ISO 100 at wider settings, of course you can work with this by reducing aperture, higher ISO etc), but it does really depend on what you'll be using the flash for.

[DrJon]

Re: New flasher

I'd stick to guns that support Canon's ETTL2 flash system. The 430exII is okay (BTW the first two digits are the guide number) and the now discontinued 580exII better but not light (but worth a mention as hopefully the price should drop now it's no longer current, I'm very happy with mine). The new 600 model is seriously un-cheap.

Things worth reading on Canon flash:

(1) Syl Arena's excellent "Speedliter's Handbook" (note doesn't cover the 600).

(2) Three pages starting here: http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/

John

[S_J_P]

New flasher

John's raised a point of consideration, the Yongnuo YN565's not HSS compatible (but is E-TTL ii) but the 568 is both HSS and E-TTL ii, which may sway your decisions long.

The (expensive) Canon EX600 -RT have a guide number of 60 at 200mm, but the flash is only as powerful as the Canon EX580 (GN 58) at 105mm, it's the increased zoom which boosts the GN.

The Yongnuo's have a GN of 58 at 105mm, the same as Canon's two 'guns. The Nissin Di866 is slightly more powerful.

I'd definitely recommend The Speedliter's Handbook too, it's a great read and (despite not being EX600 specific) still covers the vast majority of flash topics.

[DrJon]

Re: New flasher

Oh, yes, good point - HSS is well worth having. I keep it enabled (in a custom setting) on my camera so I can shoot over the X-sync speed if I want to (as it defaults to not used at or below that speed).

(HSS allows flash at high shutter speeds. The problem at high shutter speeds is the curtain that ends the exposure starts traveling over the sensor before the curtain that starts it has finished its trip, so there is no point where the whole sensor is uncovered. HSS gets round this by doing a bunch of short pulses so all parts of the sensor see a few of them.)

[DrJon]

Re: New flasher

P.S. I was in Calumet in Euston earlier today and they had some 'B' grade 580exIIs at £299, although that doesn't seem as cheap as they should be to me (that's basically what I paid for both of mine new). ('B' grade means open boxes or returned products that have been back to Canon to be checked and are now being sold again.)

If you have a £199 budget then probably a 430exII is okay. It can go a lot further than 5m at higher ISO or lower f-stop. At ISO 400 and f5.6 I get 21m from a 580exII (a 430exII would be over 15m).

[Wayne Els]

Re: New flasher

Sorry to hi jack this but I was toying with getting a Yongnuo YN-468II eTTL II. Any comments? I know virtually nothing but want a single gun I can play around with off camera. Cheers in advance.

[S_J_P]

New flasher

As far as I know the Yongnuo 468 isn't wireless TTL, so if you use it off camera you'll be limited to manual mode. Not ideal, but useable and a great way to learn!

As you add features, manual - TTL - slave mode -High speed flash - power - master mode, you add price, so you need to decide what you need and budget accordingly.

For budget off-camera I think I'd go for the (manual) Yongnuo 560, but if you're planning on using it on camera too then the 468 looks decent value as an entry value E-TTL 'gun. Having said that, I'd advocate spending the extra on a pukka E-TTL off-camera flash for the flexibility it brings, whenever the subject is moving manual can be a real pain!

[Wayne Els]

Re: New flasher

Thanks for that, I'll do some more research. As I said I'm pretty unsure what guns do what and given this is starting out don't want to spend a fortune hence the Yongnuo's over a Canon.

[DrJon]

Re: New flasher

I must confess to not knowing about the Yongnuo YN-568EX (it's a relatively new model, well that's my excuse anyway) - a really good move by Steve to bring it up.

It looks like a 580exII-alike just missing support for external battery packs (you probably don't care) and Master mode (which means if you want to use multiple flashes your next one would need to be have master mode and this could be the slave, so no real down-side). No idea what the thermal protection is like (the original 58EXs weren't great there) but no reason to assume wouldn't be okay. At £110 on E-bay (fotocola2000 - who I know nothing about) perhaps the weight is the main issue vs. a 430... overall sounds like an excellent idea.

Edit:
This is a little negative but might just be down to one iffy unit: http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobis...7631806567241/ although http://speedlights.net/speedlights-power-index/ don't seem to have tested one yet.
Also I think the sync socket isn't a standard one, so need suitable adapter/cable for PC sync.

John

[r.rogers]

Re: New flasher

Thanks to all for the information. With my budget and the fact that I really just want to be able to do basic things at this stage, Ill go with the 430 but hopefully I can upgrade in the future.

[S_J_P]

New flasher

Canon are offering £20 cashback on the 430EX until 24th January, so if you're going that route then it may be good to hurry!

[Wayne Els]

Re: New flasher

As far as I know the Yongnuo 468 isn't wireless TTL, so if you use it off camera you'll be limited to manual mode. Not ideal, but useable and a great way to learn!

As you add features, manual - TTL - slave mode -High speed flash - power - master mode, you add price, so you need to decide what you need and budget accordingly.

For budget off-camera I think I'd go for the (manual) Yongnuo 560, but if you're planning on using it on camera too then the 468 looks decent value as an entry value E-TTL 'gun. Having said that, I'd advocate spending the extra on a pukka E-TTL off-camera flash for the flexibility it brings, whenever the subject is moving manual can be a real pain!

OK it'd up the spend a bit but if I were to buy the Yongnuo YN-622 Wireless TTL Flash Trigger Set that'd do it wouldn't it? Plus that way I'd have triggers that I'd need anyway?

[S_J_P]

Re: New flasher

It's not quite that simple! (Is it ever?)

Broadly you can use flash in one of two ways, automatic (TTL) where the camera uses algorithms to determine the relevant flash exposure for the scene, or manual where you use your noggin (plus trial and error and/or a flash exposure meter, tables, or calculations based on the flash guide-number) to set an appropriate flash exposure.

The former works well, most of the time, so long as you take into account the system foibles. The latter system gives most flexibility but requires a reasonable static subject otherwise your exposure will be all over the place as the flash to subject distance varies.

When purchasing a flashgun you can purchase manual 'guns quite inexpensively, but they won't be able to be controlled by the camera, or you can pay more for a TTL compatible 'gun which will be matched to your particular camera brand's TTL system and will adjust it's output based on the cameras interpretation of the scene.

Next up is the way the camera and flash communicate, i.e. the wired or wireless connection. This connection can occur either by light, by radio transmission, or by hard-wiring (this can be by having the flash sitting in the hot-shoe atop the camera, or via an off-camera cord).

The communication method is then further broken down into TTL compatible, or manual compatible systems. So you can have optical TTL where the camera communicates it's chosen exposure settings by a "pre-flash" or manual optical where the 'gun detects the flash on the camera and fires itself at your manually chosen setting. Likewise, a radio-trigger may transmit TTL exposure data or just transmit a "FIRE" command. Even the off-camera cables come in TTL and manual versions. As with the 'guns themselves, the TTL variants tend to cost more than the manual versions.

So, if you want to use a flash off-camera and have it controlled by the camera, you need both a TTL flash and a TTL communication system (such as Yongnuo 565EX and 622c, or Canon 600EX and STE-3, Canon 580EX and ST-E2, Canon 430EX and EOS 7D, or an off-camera TTL cord such as Canon OC-E3, or a permutation of these). If either the flashgun or the communication system is not TTL compatible, then the whole system will only operate in manual.

The cheapest way of getting a reasonably capable off-camera TTL flash is probably with something like a Yongnuo 565 or Nissin Di622 and a TTL off-camera cord (Amazon or E-Bay will sell a compatible OC-E3 for around £15). You'd be surprised how enormous the effect is of holding the flash at arms length rather than having it sat atop the camera! You would have to be aware of the potential pitfalls of taking this route though, and perhaps the more expensive Canon system may be more economic overall.