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Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

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    Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

    I have now had a few more hours to experiment with the YN-560 Mk ii flashguns and believe that I have found a way to use them but it is not as I had originally hoped.

    As an experiment I tried photographing milk splashes today as historically I have found that milk shows up lighting errors far more than the water (that may just be me).

    I carried out the following tests using a set up very similar to the image posted yesterday the only real difference was that the catch tank was changed to a glass rather than the large tray.

    1. Same setup as yesterday i.e. 2x YN560 in front with a Canon 580 behind and hand held canon 430 the canon guns being triggered by my Pixel King radio trigger and the YN-560’s optically
    2. Triggering the 2xYN-560’s optically with my 50D’s onboard flash
    3. Combination of 2xYN-560’s and 1xCanon 430 all triggered by my Pixel King radio triggers
    4. Only the 2xYN-560 units triggered by my Pixel King radio triggers.


    My findings and conclusion, which are illustrated in the following images, are that there is a delay in firing the flashes when used at significantly reduced power i.e. 1/128 and 1/64 power settings and combined with either mixed makes or mixed trigger methods.

    However if the YN-560’s are triggered with the Pixel King units and are not mixed with any of my Canon flashes I get good results. I therefore believe that there is a small but significant delay in the circuitry, and I feel that the Canon units are firing BEFORE the YN-560’s. This is based on the fact that I had a blue gel over my Canon 580 and in the close up image of the crown and fine droplets you can see the blue halo nearer the crown and then the solid white droplet as frozen by the YN-560 units which had no gels fitted.

    I think I will be buying one more YN-560 and using them with my Pixel King triggers as that will protect my Canon flashes but should also get around the flash sync issues. Not what I really wanted but it is the only option I can see if I want to use 3 flashes and not use all of my Canon gear.

    Test 1 – 2xCanon 580 + 1x Canon 430 wireless triggered and 2xYN560 Mk ii optically triggered


    Close up showing the blue halo which leads me to believe the Canon gear is firing faster than the YN’s


    Test 1 – 2xYN-5660 Mk ii triggered optically by onboard flash on 50D


    It is easy to see the halo and duplication of droplets to the left and right at the top.

    Test 3 – Combination of YN-560’s and Canon 430 all wirelessly triggered

    Again the halo is very obvious

    Test 4 – 2xYN-560 triggered by Pixel King radio triggers


    Just to confirm the lack of halo this is a close up on the droplets (yes the DOF was getting soft but I think it proves the point)


    My conclusion as noted above is that the Yongnuo units do not play well at high speed settings when used in combination with other makes of flashes and when used with varying trigger methods it seems to me that it is an all or nothing situation if you want high speed sync.

    #2
    Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

    Thanks for your sterling efforts Muscat, it's very interesting that the delay is there at all, but I suppose it's the penalty for buying reverse engineered and cheaply manufactured equipment. Knowing the shortcomings and limitations and then finding workarounds is part of the fun ;-)

    Out of interest, is your 50D optical-wireless compatible? If so, did you try optically triggering all four flashes to see whether they were in sync or not?

    I've not noticed any such issue with my Yongnuo 568, but I'll be paying very close attention to any droplet elongation when I review today's images.
    Steve's kit - Canon 6D/EG-D/BG-E13/60D/EF-D/BG-E9/600 EX-RT/17-40L/24-105L/40/100L/70-200L/70-300/2x iii/Sigma 8-16/Yongnuo YN-568EX (x2)/YN560EX II/YN622C-TX/YN622C (x4)

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      #3
      Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

      Thanks for posting your findings, as I was about to order a couple of YN-560's. Now I shall have to decide whether to order 3/4, or another Canon unit.
      Colin

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        #4
        Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

        Glad to be of help, at least I hope it helps

        Steve, I have a 5D3 and a 50D unfortunately unless I put a Canon 580 on top I don't believe either of them have the inbuilt capability of optical triggering, I believe that was first available in the 7D and then the 60D

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          #5
          Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

          I use the Canon ST-E2 as the trigger and that should still work with the YN-560's.
          Colin

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            #6
            Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

            Cheers Muscat, your investigations have confirmed my suspicions that my mix of MR14/580-11 with the YN-560-11 was causing my halo/double bubbles. Back to the drawing board for me then for my lighting set up.
            Having said that the images obtained are worth keeping, well done
            Peter

            Feel free to browse my
            Website : www.peterstockton-photography.co.uk
            Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_original_st/

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

              Originally posted by colin C View Post
              I use the Canon ST-E2 as the trigger and that should still work with the YN-560's.
              Colin, I am guessing that your Canon ST-E2 should work as my Pixel King works OK, I set the YN-560's to either manual or multi and they fire fine on my radio triggers.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

                Muscat, I've had a close look at my weekend's work using Canon and Yongnuo 568 and can't discern any halos, so you've now got me wondering whether it's the newer YN flash or my triggering method (YN-622c radio triggers) which solves the problem. If I'd had my wits about me I'd have tried optically-triggering the YN flash yesterday, but that'll have to wait for another day.

                Out of interest, which slave-mode did you set on the YN's, I presume as you were fully-manual you used S1 mode?

                I see you're in Kent (like me), if you're local to the Sittingbourne/Faversham area and would like to borrow my YN-622c triggers for further testing then drop me a line.
                Steve's kit - Canon 6D/EG-D/BG-E13/60D/EF-D/BG-E9/600 EX-RT/17-40L/24-105L/40/100L/70-200L/70-300/2x iii/Sigma 8-16/Yongnuo YN-568EX (x2)/YN560EX II/YN622C-TX/YN622C (x4)

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

                  Hi Steve, I have sent you a PM, but to answer your question about the sync mode yes I was using fully manual settings on the YN-560's with the S1 mode set, the Canon flashes were set via the camera control through the wireless triggers but were all indicating the same power / zoom settings as the YN-560's before taking any pictures, except for the few errors, which were down to me, that produced the shot with the long blue light trails where I had the 430 on full power.

                  One big difference between your Yongnuo flash and mine is that you have the top of the range and new YN-568, I went for the much cheaper YN-560 units and it may well be the cheaper circuit boards and components in the <£50 units which is causing the slight delay.

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                    #10
                    Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

                    I too have been using a couple of 560's mk III (have inbuilt receiver) triggered by RF 603 in multi mode.
                    I'm not sure what S1 or S2 mode is for?
                    I have noticed when shot at 1/250 or 1/200 I get a vertical band down 1 side, is this due to sync problems?
                    When shot at 1/160 this seemed to disappear.
                    For how much they cost I'm quite impressed with them, very solidly built, firm button presses and nice sound when recharging (quickly recharges too).
                    I haven't used a canon version though so I don't have anything to compare it to but for my first flash it's a thumbs up from me.
                    Chris
                    Practice makes perfect

                    Canon EOS 7D,1100D, EF 400mm f5.6L USM, EF 24-105 1:4 L IS USM, 18-55 Kit lens,EF 50mm 1.8, EF 100mm f2 USM, Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD Macro 1:2

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

                      Originally posted by crunch View Post
                      I too have been using a couple of 560's mk III (have inbuilt receiver) triggered by RF 603 in multi mode.
                      I'm not sure what S1 or S2 mode is for?
                      I have noticed when shot at 1/250 or 1/200 I get a vertical band down 1 side, is this due to sync problems?
                      When shot at 1/160 this seemed to disappear.
                      For how much they cost I'm quite impressed with them, very solidly built, firm button presses and nice sound when recharging (quickly recharges too).
                      I haven't used a canon version though so I don't have anything to compare it to but for my first flash it's a thumbs up from me.
                      Chris the S1 and S2 are different sync modes for when you use the flashguns with the TTl and pre-flash capabilities I used the S1 mode as I had the flashes set manually and didn't want the triggering system to interfere.

                      The vertical line you get when shooting at 1/25 or 1/200 is almost certaily due to the camera shutter not being in sync with the flash, the shutter is closing faster than the full duration of the flash and hence you are getting the banding, to get round this you need to either shoot at the or below the maximum flash sync speed for your camera (the manual will tell you what that is but if everything works OK at 1/160 I am guessing that is the sync speed) or set the external flash sync setting to HSS (High Speed Sync) which can be found on one of your camera's menu options.

                      Be aware however that if you do set the camera to use HSS the power of the flash will be reduced as it will fire a series of very short bursts which are at reduced power.

                      In the high speed flash shots that we we are talking about above we are purposely forcing the flashes to fire in very short bursts by restricting their power output to 1/128 or 1/64 of full power. In the case of full power the flash duration may well be 1/500 - 1/1,000 second in total but when it is reduced to 1/128 power the YN-560 gives you 1/8,000 second burst and the Canon 580 is down to around1/10,000 burst and it is this very fast flash that freezes the movement.

                      I agree that the YN flashes are great value for money

                      I am sure others will add to my comments.
                      Last edited by Muscat; 04-02-2013, 09:29.

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                        #12
                        Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

                        Thanks Muscat
                        Chris
                        Practice makes perfect

                        Canon EOS 7D,1100D, EF 400mm f5.6L USM, EF 24-105 1:4 L IS USM, 18-55 Kit lens,EF 50mm 1.8, EF 100mm f2 USM, Tamron AF70-300mm f4-5.6 Di LD Macro 1:2

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

                          Hi All,

                          I am hopeless with the understanding of Flash Photography really and using multiples.

                          I have been reading these reviews of the 560 and Steve's review of the 568 with great interest, I currenty have a 580 and 430 which I use as a slave, I would like to get two more flash guns but only to use off camera as slaves and thought the 560's would do the job, but then read Ian's comments on the delayed reactions when fired optically.

                          So, my question is, would the amount of delay Ian refers to, have any noticeable effect on studio portrait type of Photographs? I can clearly see the effect it has on Ian's water droplet work, but I am more interested in getting better shots of my Grandkids etc.

                          I note that Steve says he doesn't have any optical delays with the 568 and Ian doesn't with the 560 if he uses wireless, however, if I was to buy the Yongnuo Tranceivers to go with the 560's at their cost I might as well buy the 568's.

                          Or have I misunderstood the whole thing?

                          Any thoughts anyone??

                          Regards Paul

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

                            Paul,

                            i only notice a delay in the circuits if I am using the flashes at 1/64 or 1/128 power (flash speeds of around 1/20,000 sec) I personally wouldn't work about mixing the flashguns for studio portrait type work as you will never see the delay

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                              #15
                              Re: Yongnuo YN-560 Mkii further investigation results

                              Thanks Ian, That's put my mind at rest

                              Regards Paul

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