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    #16
    Re: High ISO low noise...technique

    Millie,
    you are right - the dog was overexposed and the background completely burnt out - don't know why I chose spot metering would have been better with evaluative metering or centre weighted metering - I'll check the histogram and switch the highlight alert on and do some more trials.
    Thanks for your comments - this has unleashed the unused potential of high ISO to me - I'd pretty much resigned myself to ISO400 or lower.
    Brian Vickers LRPS

    brianvickersphotography.com

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      #17
      Re: High ISO low noise...technique

      I regularly use ISO 1600 and often push it further if I need to. I manually expose for the grass if it is inconvenient to use a greyscale and use that exposure until/unless the light changes. Then I meter for the grass again if I have time, or use experience to dial in some compensation if I haven't. Generally, my compensation is made by altering the ISO setting, as I prefer to shoot at a given speed and aperture.

      Regular checks of the histogram keep me on target to nail the exposure.

      I was taught many years ago that the human eye is very sensitive to green and if you can get the grass/ foliage looking right, the rest of the scene must be right. That is probably why there are twice as many green filters on a sensor, than the red and blue.

      Colin
      Colin

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        #18
        Re: High ISO low noise...technique

        On my 50d I regularly use iso800 and now that I have worked it out I have found iso1600 fine too. I have yet to get noise free shots at iso3200.

        I am off to the zoo today so I will try a few to see how it goes

        Brian
        ef-r

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          #19
          Re: High ISO low noise...technique

          I shot a few frames on a D60 a few weeks ago and the digital noise from that at ISO 400, seemed to be the equivalent of my camera at ISO 6400. The signal amplification was quite crude back then, in comparison to now, and that would result in a high signal to noise ratio.

          There is no reason in theory why the signal to noise ratio could not be close to zero and if the practical software and hardware problems could be overcome, there is no reason to expect digital noise at all, regardless of the ISO setting.

          With the very latest generation of Canon bodies, we appear to have started that journey.

          Colin
          Colin

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            #20
            Re: High ISO low noise...technique

            I typed this last night but decided to watch telly rather than post it. Some of my stuff overlaps with Colins

            Manual is the way I’d go, I will explain what works for me this situation.

            1. Forget about the dog briefly. Pre-compose your image (overall scene that the dog will run into). On days were the sky isn’t worth including, just leave it out. It's obvious, but be mindful of where the sun is even though it’s obscured.

            2. Set the exposure manually, bearing in mind the shutterspeed you’d need to capture the dog running towards you. Should the shutterspeed and aperture of your choice force you into using a higher ISO than you’d like, pack it in and wait for a better day if it’s not vitally important.

            The type of metering you choose is not crucial , as you will take a test shot(s) and check the histo and lcd until the scene is exposed how you want it. Use spot in the way Colin described or evaluative. It's best to know the best type of metering for particular situtations though.

            You have the option to use the flash on HSS, focusing on the dog’s eye hit the FEL and snap away, as it gets nearer. The beauty of this, is the exposure settings for the BG won’t change if the light doesn’t, and the flash will take care of the doggy independently.

            For the moving subject s you’d be using controlled bursts with high speed continuous + AI servo, if you want to use the flash set the CFn that relates to this type of shooting.

            Last time I used this technique was a couple of weeks ago at a marathon. Perfectly exposed runners + nice landmark and a deep blue sky as my backdrop.

            When I looked at other people’s pictures I saw the standard ill composed images, gawd awful turquoise and blown skies, gaunt shadowy eye sockets sloping horizons and street furniture etc.

            Millie

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              #21
              Re: High ISO low noise...technique

              LOL Just realised there’s little point to my post.
              Other than go for ‘correct’ exposure and take a slower, holistic, calculated approach.

              I normally treat blanket statements with caution, like X camera is noise free at x ISO speed, and always expose one way or the other, or use a particular shooting mode or technique. Unfortunately not all cameras are equal – get the best out of what you’ve got is the key.

              There are many times when semi auto modes are ideal, especially snapshots, rapidly changing light conditions, and when the BG is irrelevant, or you’ve been presented with a split second opportunity and you’ve only time to turn the camera on and grab a snap. Spot metering and exposure lock can work very well.

              I view high ISO speeds as something I’m forced into.

              I’ve taken snaps were I could have easily used ISO 100, but was forced to increase ISO sensitivity by two full stops because I set totally inappropriate narrow aperture that added nothing to the snap. What's the point of fast lens L lenses, if like me you don’t always use them to their full advantage ?

              By the way, on a completely sexist note:
              The marathon pictures I was mocking were mainly taken by intelligent, middle aged men with expensive cameras and lenses. Not point and shooters……….runs for cover !
              Millie

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                #22
                Re: High ISO low noise...technique

                Hmmm, this is turning into a really good subject and as usual, Millie has contributed more pearls of wisdom and only one piece of mischief, but more of that later.

                Here are a few views based on Millie's post:

                1. Spot on, I always pre-visualise an image and very rarely do I go for the instinctive shot.

                2. Agreed. Sometimes you have to get the shot regardless of weather conditions, but otherwise, walk away and come back in better weather. Dull light produces dull pictures and
                although there will be exceptions, it is a pretty good working rule of thumb. I spent nearly four years trying to get the shot I wanted of Tower Bridge in London. The weather was
                nearly always wrong, but I persevered and eventually got what I wanted. It's not a particularly stunning shot, but exactly what I wanted when I pre-visualised it.

                3. Metering mode is not critical at all, but understanding what you are metering is. Evaluative is a fairly good catch-all and surprisingly, I seldom use spot metering.

                4. HSS flash is brilliant advice. I use it a lot -2EV just to give a little fill to the shadow areas and maybe a catch light in the eye. I am embarrassed that I never made this point
                previously, probably because I take it for granted and rarely think about it consciously ............. Millie to the rescue!

                5. If it moves, high speed drive + A1 servo but, I only take bursts of two or three shots, even though my camera will "machine gun" at 10 frames per second. Much better to
                anticipate the action and squeeze off a few, rather than rely on the motor drive. Here's the boring tekky bit:
                If your camera will shoot 10fps and your shutter speed is 1/1000 sec to freeze the action and you shoot for a full second, you have captured 10/1,000 of a second. 990/1,000 of a
                second you have failed to record and the figures are even more stacked against you if your camera shoots less than 10fps. Muck better to anticipate the peak of the action.

                Men, Cameras and the marathon. All the very latest pro kit in immaculate condition and haven't a clue how to use it ............... the standard definition of a tackle-tart if ever I heard one. Just the male equivalent of handbags and girls really!


                Colin
                Colin

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                  #23
                  Re: High ISO low noise...technique

                  Yes this is turning into a monster as threads go, but good information is being exchanged.
                  Just in case it carries on - and just for the record the dog's name is Harvey. My able assistant and thief of untold accessories whilst setting up. He also produces his best poses while I'm looking away any 'does a runner' when I spot him.

                  I note from my manual I can get the histogram up in live view - so don't need a test shot to then study it after. I'll be trying that out at the weekend and the flash as suggested.

                  Thanks for the information all.
                  Brian Vickers LRPS

                  brianvickersphotography.com

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Re: High ISO low noise...technique

                    Originally posted by Millie View Post

                    By the way, on a completely sexist note:
                    The marathon pictures I was mocking were mainly taken by intelligent, middle aged men with expensive cameras and lenses. Not point and shooters……….runs for cover !
                    Millie
                    I have a good friend with a new 1ds mk3 and more L lens than you can shake a stick at ..... and even I can get a better picture than him with my point and click.

                    In the biker world we have the 'weekend warriors' that get their new(top of the range sports) bike out of the garage, put on their new (expensive) one piece leather suits and travel 10 miles to a fashionable bike meeting place at an average speed of 30mph, have a burger, and potter back home at 30mph to their suburban(5 bed) executive house. Put their bike back in the garage ready for the next sunny Sunday

                    Definitely a man thing to buy the biggest and best without having a clue how to use it
                    Last edited by briansquibb; 19-03-2010, 18:17.
                    ef-r

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Re: High ISO low noise...technique

                      Originally posted by briansquibb View Post
                      Put their bike back in the garage ready for the next sunny Sunday
                      I don't wish to quibble Brian, but you have left out one very important stage in Mr Weekend Warrior's routine:

                      Polish the bike ............ twice .......... then put it into the garage!

                      Colin
                      Colin

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                        #26
                        Re: High ISO low noise...technique



                        My bikes are lucky to get a wash more than once a year - before their MOT
                        ef-r

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                          #27
                          Re: High ISO low noise...technique

                          I have found the best technique for low noise removal - buy a 5d which is comfortable at iso3200, even with my amateurish bungling. I think this is a bit like trying to tune a small car to go faster when it is easier just to buy a faster car.

                          The 50d now sits with the 70-200 f4L - giving the equivalent of a 320 F4L

                          The 5d has the 24-105 f4L IS as the walkabout lens which means I can go round snapping at slow shutter speeds and get crisp pictures.

                          Brian
                          Last edited by briansquibb; 20-03-2010, 02:15.
                          ef-r

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                            #28
                            Re: High ISO low noise...technique

                            Apply reverse logic, set out to get noisy images at low ISOs :-)

                            Brain S,
                            The Image Stabiliser only serves to lessen camera shake. Not much use if you're snapping fidgety, but largely static subjects with a slow shutter speed.
                            Have I got that wrong ?

                            Millie

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                              #29
                              Re: High ISO low noise...technique

                              Yes I take largely static items - so we are talking of 1/30th where camera shake starts to set in @ 105mm - see the pictures of the baboons for example
                              ef-r

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                                #30
                                Re: High ISO low noise...technique

                                OK let me put it this way :-)
                                Would the IS help if I was photographing a flower on a breezy day @ 1/30 and I wanted nice sharp images ?

                                Millie

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