Understanding the Brief

[colin C]

I have just received my copy of the quarterly Hawk Conservancy Trust magazine, with one of my shots on the cover. It’s not much of a surprise, because they asked me to take some specific shots and mentioned they had chosen one. It’s still nice to see it in print though. I sent them half a dozen shots to choose from and their choice wouldn’t have been mine. There were others that I was particularly pleased with photographically and I considered had more wow factor.

Now, this is the point that I am trying to put across. As photographers, we are very much conditioned to what is acceptable photographically, currents vogues and trends and even subconsciously influenced by the “Crop Police” and their ilk. However, the client is only interested in a picture. They don’t care how it was taken, how difficult or easy it was, or even whether it follows photography convention, they just want what they want.

I used to get this a lot with clients and I always used to listen very carefully to the brief and ask questions to ensure that I didn’t misunderstand their requirements. On many occasions I shot it their way and as an extra, also shot what I thought would be better. Only rarely did they choose my version.

In conclusion, listen carefully and make sure you fully understand the brief.

Colin

[Canon-Fodder!]

Re: Understanding the Brief

In conclusion, listen carefully and make sure you fully understand the brief.

First & foremost... Congrats on the publication... Big round of applause... Any chance you can put-up the chosen print?

Your summary holds true for just about any walk-of-life! Shame more people don't listen; and take action!

[briansquibb]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Interesting comments Colin.

As a novice I often show my friends my pictures and ask which is their preference. I have found that they don't like:

- Tightly cropped objects
- highly photoshopped pictures
- silky water
- moody lighting

They seem to prefer 'chocolate box' poses and scenes, simple composition, realism.

This has also been the case when doing my family portraits.

That is why I have adapted a much simpler style than most.

I show the pictures that I have taken for my client and listen for the 'I would like' instructions. It works.

Brian

PS I sometimes like to get a bit edgy with the shots - usually incurring the wrath of people on this forum

[colin C]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Many thanks for your comments. First the shot isn't that brilliant, a horse and rider galloping at maybe 15mph, with a falcon flying overhead at around 70 mph. There were better ones, but I will post it on this thread this evening.

For the other points raised, there is commercial and there is photography and the two will rarely mix, unles you have a particularly Avante-Garde advertising agency as your client. This is particularly obvious when camera club competitions are judged and the judge awards quite low points to shots that I know are very commercial and would sell well. But I also know that most judges haven't earn't a penny from photography, but are well versed on the current photographic trends. They all go on the same judges refresher courses and the new vogues are easily spotted within a couple of competitions of the new year. With so many people belonging to photography clubs, entering competitions and looking for those extra couple of marks from the judge, it is no wonder that sometime we can lose sight of what is commercially viable.

Incurring wrath Brian? I thought we were far too friendly for that. Try some of the USA based Forums, they have open warefare!

Colin

[briansquibb]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Wrath in the nicest English way

Forum comment "Not a good photo at all. Dull subject, poorly executed", SWMBO - big thumbs up

SWMBO has piped up with the observation that we are all like fashion designers who all go wild about the most outrageous, impractical designs, clapping enthusiastically as the models sway down the runway, yet the fashions that hit the high street are simple, elegant and practical and bear no resemblance to those in the fashion shows.

Me - I am going to keep on taking pictures the way I want and to hell with fashion.

Forum "I don’t get why you bought those 3 slow, gentleman’s walkabout, fair-weather lenses when you seem to be interested in weddings and flood lit sports" I prefer to think for myself and think before I do something.I would not have spent nearly 2k on a whim without careful consideration. Colin is right in that there seems to be a prescribed way to show various types of pictures, for example landscapes. I believe we should all think for ourselves and do it the way we want - sometimes that might mean starting by copying anothers style that you like - and then evolving it.

I think we should get out of our comfort zone at every opportunity in order to move on.

Brian

[colin C]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Nicely put Brian.

After many years of running a business and doing exactly what the client wanted, I am now in the very fortunate position of only taking pictures to please me. It has taken me a very long time to get to the position where you are now Brian and as far as photography is concerned, I am content in my own skin. Don't get me wrong, I still strive for improvement and welcome advice and criticism, but I am comfortable not to accept the majority of it. Interestingly, I accept more advice from non photographers, because they are not fettered by the conventions of photography and often have an instinctive feel for what is right and what isn't.

This is starting to sound a little pretentious, so I'll shut up and post the image that started all of this off.



Colin

[EOS_Jim]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Nice colin :) The others must have been award winners to beat that! Why wouldn't you have picked this? A beauty.

[djguk47]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Colin,
Congratulations on having your photo on the cover of the magazine.

Your comments about judges are interesting as since I have recently joined a Photography Club I have been listening carefully to judges comments, as you advised me to do, and in the space of a couple of weeks have been surprised at what some have picked as winners except for the judge tonight.
Tonight's competition was themed "High Wycombe" and his opening remarks were " I will look at what is being displayed in prints and projected images and will base my judging on whether or not the prints and projected images could be used by Wycombe Council in a booklet describing High Wycombe" The ones he chose were absolutely "spot on" for what the "man in the street" would look at and say .. "this is High Wycombe" it was very refreshing.
I have noted his name in my new little black book of judges..

David

[colin C]

Re: Understanding the Brief

I have noted his name in my new little black book of judges..

Very wise David.

If you want to establish your credibility in a camera club, enter competitions and use the system and judges preferences to your advantage. On our local circuit we have judges who want:

Crop tight. Prune out everything that isn't necessary.
Crop loose. Give the picture room to breath.
One that likes bicycles in the shot.
Another that likes steam trains.
Another that likes a splash of red as the focal point.
And another that likes huge foreground interest in a landscape, such as a large boulder, or rock.

Poor newbies don't stand a chance and it is surprising how many club members enter the same old stuff, regardless who is judging. Know your judge and enter an appropriate photo, it gives you the edge.

Colin

[briansquibb]

Re: Understanding the Brief

I love the picture.It is the eye contact of the rider with the bird that makes it for me. I have actually been in the position where I was out riding my horse and had a buzzard come over me. We were riding down a bridleway (Piilgrims Way) where the trees had overgrown it so it was like riding through a tunnel when the buzzard overtook us from behind. Quite magnificent.

I sometimes wonder if the best pictures are those that don't look spectacular - perhaps giving the viewer the thought that they could have been there and maybe taken the picture themselves but with the good photographer just being able to 'get the angle'.

I had thought of joining a club (I guess it would be Sevenoaks) but wonder how long I would last with my freethinking attitude (SWMBO - 'Angry Old Man').

Brian

[colin C]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Brian

Thank you for your very kind comments and I envy you the experience with the buzzard.

The better shots were:

• The same shot in landscape format - they didn't use that because the page layout and editorial dictated portrait format.
• Head on with hooves thundering and kicking up muck, that the falcon was flying through at low level - not used because the Falcon was less prominent against the meadow.
• Bald Eagle about to land on the outstretched hand - not used because the article was essentially about falconry.

All very valid reasons why the final choice was made, which brings me nicely back to the title of understanding the brief, it would have been all too easy to present them with something that they didn't actually want. When I gave up the business side of photography, choosing not to undertake any paid work gave me the freedom I wanted. I don't turn down every opportunity, because some are rather interesting, or offer challenges. I don't take a fee, but request that they make a donation to the Hawk Conservancy Trust. Obviously the HCT are quite happy with that arrangement when they want some work done.

As for the "Grumpy Old Man" and Camera Clubs, go for it. There is such a mix of abilities and personalities that it is well worth the effort and generally, such a wonderful source of free information and experience. Whether on Forums, or Camera Clubs, there are many photographers that are only to happy to pass on their experience, help to solve problems and offer advice ............. the advice isn't always welcome, but it is generally well meant! There are those that are content to be spoon-fed and those that push the boundaries and new blood and ideas is the Genesis of any modern Camera Club. I would consider that any Camera Club would be fortunate to have you as a member and I suspect that you would gain much in return.

Give it a try and stick it out for a season (the first few weeks take some getting used to!).

Colin

[briansquibb]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Colin,

Your passion for the HCT comes through loud and clear. Perhaps we, as a forum, should arrange a meeting there to show our support too. It would make a great day out with our cameras and to put a face to the forum members. We could even arrange to car share if it would help

WDYT??

Brian

[djguk47]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Colin,

Your passion for the HCT comes through loud and clear. Perhaps we, as a forum, should arrange a meeting there to show our support too. It would make a great day out with our cameras and to put a face to the forum members. We could even arrange to car share if it would help

WDYT??

Brian

Brian, hey definately count me in on any meet at the HCT. It is an absolutely fantastic place......and they do a good bar-b-que
David

[hughbie]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Re: Sleepy cygnet

Cygnet not sharp at all, twigs are sort of in focus and very distracting, needed a longer lens - use your 70-200 ?. Background looks weird.

Not a good photo at all. Dull subject, poorly executed.

C'mon Brian, you know you can do better than this.

Brian,
For some reason, my full comment on your cygnet pic was not posted. It may look good on your A4 print, but look again at the posted pic, its not great on the web site - I was judging on other stuiff you have done, such as that low level shot of a hawkl. I don't do Wrath. If you just want praise, then say so. Its a forum.

[briansquibb]

Re: Understanding the Brief

Hugh you are taking the comment out of context. The thread was on different view of pictures - I contrasted your comment with the one from SWMBO. No more , no less - it was not a cheap shot at you - I deliberately did not mention you in the quote which was from a different thread. I have had a lot of adverse reaction and still here battling out.

One of the reasons that I started the picture size thread was that I realised that pictures do look different when different sizes - I took your comment and thought it through.