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    #31
    Re: backwards or forwards

    Bit far away with a 600mm lens though ,as it would bring athmospherics into the equation ,which is why I suggest 20/30 feet the normal sort of distance from a bird animals circle of comfort .the 50x rule is more for wide angle lenses etc

    It actually works out at 30,000mm or 99 feet give or take a inch for a 600mm lens .which to verify fine detail for micro adjust is entirely out of the question .but if shoe fits wear it
    Last edited by the black fox; 11-01-2017, 18:18.

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      #32
      Re: backwards or forwards

      That's still only 30 metres away so if the conditions were ok when testing, atmospherics would be negligible. There's no point calibrating a lens at distances you'd hardly ever use the lens at anyway and less than 30 metres is too close for a 600mm lens most of the time. So calibrating a 600mm any closer would be pointless in my opinion.
      1D MkIV, 5D MkIII, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, EF 85mm f/1.2L II ** R6, RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 ** M5, EF-M 11-22mm f/4.0-5.6 IS, EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS, EF-M 22mm f/2.0, EF-M 28mm f/3.5 Macro IS **** Speedlite 580EX II, Speedlite 430EX III-RT, Speedlite 470EX-AI, ** FD 50mm f/1.2L, FD 55mm f/1.2 S.S.C. ASPHERICAL, FD 50-300mm f/4.5L, FL-F 300mm f/5.6, FD 300mm f/2.8L.

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        #33
        Re: backwards or forwards

        I still think the easiest way for a quick check is by using live view first, that has to be in focus as it's what the sensor is seeing. If there's a difference between live view and normal through the viewfinder shots, then the a/f should be the problem. If not, then there may be another issue.
        EOS 6D, 6D Mk II, 80D, 70D, 100D, 200D, M50, M100. Canon 10-18, 18 - 55, 55 - 250 IS STM lenses, Canon 16 - 35 mm F4L, 35 mm EF-S macro, 50 mm F1.8 STM, 60 mm EF-S macro, MPE-65 macro, 85 mm F1.8, 200 mm F2.8 L II, M 15 - 45 mm, M 22mm F2, M 32mm F1.4. Sigma 24 - 35 F2 Art, 135 mm F1.8 Art, 17 - 50 F2.8 DC, 105 mm OS macro, 100 - 400 C, 150 - 600 C.

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          #34
          Re: backwards or forwards

          Here you go

          It’s fairly well known that not all lenses are created equal. Put that in combination with manufacturing variables and lenses don’t always perfectly align


          Print off a calibration chart and make. Doesn't the angled scale show which way you need to adjust it etc?
          Canon 1DX, 50D, EF500 F4.0 L, EF100-400 f/4.5-5.6L I , EF100-400 f/4.5-5.6L II, EF70-200 f/2.8L II, EF180 f3.5L Macro, EF 24-105 f/4L, EF17-40 f/4L, EF2.0X III, EF1.4X III, 430EX II, MR-14EX...

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            #35
            Re: backwards or forwards

            Originally posted by Sir_Loin View Post
            That's still only 30 metres away so if the conditions were ok when testing, atmospherics would be negligible. There's no point calibrating a lens at distances you'd hardly ever use the lens at anyway and less than 30 metres is too close for a 600mm lens most of the time. So calibrating a 600mm any closer would be pointless in my opinion.
            sorry but i think i had better go back to wildlife classes then ,the shot of mine thats being used on spring watch today was taken at 7.65 mtrs or approx 24 feet ,all verifiable on flickr via exif data .most small birds i take are in that range or slightly longer length as otherwise the crop would degrade the image .each to there own if your happy with your way carry on

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              #36
              Re: backwards or forwards

              Originally posted by Richard W View Post
              I still think the easiest way for a quick check is by using live view first, that has to be in focus as it's what the sensor is seeing. If there's a difference between live view and normal through the viewfinder shots, then the a/f should be the problem. If not, then there may be another issue.
              The original Canon method did recommend focus with live view first then switch back the normal without changing anything and refocus in the normal manner. If the the focus moved then adjust accordingly for back or front focus. Simple and effective without resorting to charts and focus aids. But each to their own.
              1D MkIV, 5D MkIII, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, EF 85mm f/1.2L II ** R6, RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 ** M5, EF-M 11-22mm f/4.0-5.6 IS, EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS, EF-M 22mm f/2.0, EF-M 28mm f/3.5 Macro IS **** Speedlite 580EX II, Speedlite 430EX III-RT, Speedlite 470EX-AI, ** FD 50mm f/1.2L, FD 55mm f/1.2 S.S.C. ASPHERICAL, FD 50-300mm f/4.5L, FL-F 300mm f/5.6, FD 300mm f/2.8L.

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                #37
                Re: backwards or forwards

                Originally posted by the black fox View Post
                sorry but i think i had better go back to wildlife classes then ,the shot of mine thats being used on spring watch today was taken at 7.65 mtrs or approx 24 feet ,all verifiable on flickr via exif data .most small birds i take are in that range or slightly longer length as otherwise the crop would degrade the image .each to there own if your happy with your way carry on
                No need for the eye roll, but I'll bow to your superiority having been to wildlife classes! So I'll put it this way, if you mainly use your 600 at close distances then fine, but it could affect focus at longer distance. It's about striking a happy medium and 50x the focal length is a good guide. As you say, each to their own!
                1D MkIV, 5D MkIII, EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II, EF 50mm f/1.8 STM, EF 85mm f/1.2L II ** R6, RF 24-105mm f/4.0-7.1 ** M5, EF-M 11-22mm f/4.0-5.6 IS, EF-M 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS, EF-M 55-200mm f/4.5-6.3 IS, EF-M 22mm f/2.0, EF-M 28mm f/3.5 Macro IS **** Speedlite 580EX II, Speedlite 430EX III-RT, Speedlite 470EX-AI, ** FD 50mm f/1.2L, FD 55mm f/1.2 S.S.C. ASPHERICAL, FD 50-300mm f/4.5L, FL-F 300mm f/5.6, FD 300mm f/2.8L.

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                  #38
                  Re: backwards or forwards

                  Oops sorry for the sense of humor smiley ,the written word can to easily be taken the wrong way .no I haven't ever had any classes self taught in fact ,but as you suggest you have to cut your cloth to fit so leave it there

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                    #39
                    Re: backwards or forwards

                    The minimum test distance for a 600mm lens using Focal is 12m.
                    Canon 5D3, 7D2, 60D, Canon 70-200L f2.8 IS II, Canon 300 f4L IS, Canon 16-35 f4 L, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, Canon 1.4 MkIII extender, Sigma AF 10-20mm f/3.5 EX DC HSM, Sigma 150-600 Contemporary, Tamron SP AF 70-300 F/4-5.6 Di VC USD, Canon EF-S 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS
                    https://www.flickr.com/photos/16830751@N03/

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                      #40
                      Re: backwards or forwards

                      if you mainly use your 600 at close distances then fine, but it could affect focus at longer distance.
                      Using the Sigma dock you can set the a/f adjustment for up to four different distances for any focal length. So you could adjust, for example, at 600 mm, at 10, 20, 50 and 100 metres. You can do this for up to 4 focal lengths with a zoom lens and so could repeat it for 150, 300 and 500 mm, or whatever you choose, for a maximum of 16 different adjustments in total. A bit of a long winded process (understatement!) but much more adaptable than the normal in camera method.
                      EOS 6D, 6D Mk II, 80D, 70D, 100D, 200D, M50, M100. Canon 10-18, 18 - 55, 55 - 250 IS STM lenses, Canon 16 - 35 mm F4L, 35 mm EF-S macro, 50 mm F1.8 STM, 60 mm EF-S macro, MPE-65 macro, 85 mm F1.8, 200 mm F2.8 L II, M 15 - 45 mm, M 22mm F2, M 32mm F1.4. Sigma 24 - 35 F2 Art, 135 mm F1.8 Art, 17 - 50 F2.8 DC, 105 mm OS macro, 100 - 400 C, 150 - 600 C.

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                        #41
                        Re: backwards or forwards

                        Originally posted by Richard W View Post
                        Using the Sigma dock you can set the a/f adjustment for up to four different distances for any focal length. So you could adjust, for example, at 600 mm, at 10, 20, 50 and 100 metres. You can do this for up to 4 focal lengths with a zoom lens and so could repeat it for 150, 300 and 500 mm, or whatever you choose, for a maximum of 16 different adjustments in total. A bit of a long winded process (understatement!) but much more adaptable than the normal in camera method.
                        The only issue with this method would be if using the lens on more than one body.
                        Canon 5D3, 7D2, 60D, Canon 70-200L f2.8 IS II, Canon 300 f4L IS, Canon 16-35 f4 L, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, Canon 1.4 MkIII extender, Sigma AF 10-20mm f/3.5 EX DC HSM, Sigma 150-600 Contemporary, Tamron SP AF 70-300 F/4-5.6 Di VC USD, Canon EF-S 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS
                        https://www.flickr.com/photos/16830751@N03/

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                          #42
                          Re: backwards or forwards

                          True, but I suspect that most people will only be using the one body.
                          It's also worth noting that a/f micro adjustment is only significant where you have shallow depth of field. Shooting with a "normal" lens at say f5.6 - f11, the d.o.f. will cover up any discrepancies. I suspect one reason Jeff found the improvement he did is that he was shooting at relatively close range for a long lens, at greater distances the d.o.f. would be greater and therefore any a/f errors less obvious, it at all visible.
                          Apart from long telephotos, the main area of benefit would be with those that like to shoot at wide apertures f1.2 - f2.8 with shallow d.o.f. When testing for a/f errors, you need to be close enough to the target to ensure the d.o.f is really shallow.
                          One other point, some people have apparently found that having auto correct of chromatic aberration etc. set to Enable can interfere with the performance of non-Canon lenses. Whether that's correct or imagination I don't know, but they should be set to Disable when using Sigma for example, and for all lenses when testing.
                          EOS 6D, 6D Mk II, 80D, 70D, 100D, 200D, M50, M100. Canon 10-18, 18 - 55, 55 - 250 IS STM lenses, Canon 16 - 35 mm F4L, 35 mm EF-S macro, 50 mm F1.8 STM, 60 mm EF-S macro, MPE-65 macro, 85 mm F1.8, 200 mm F2.8 L II, M 15 - 45 mm, M 22mm F2, M 32mm F1.4. Sigma 24 - 35 F2 Art, 135 mm F1.8 Art, 17 - 50 F2.8 DC, 105 mm OS macro, 100 - 400 C, 150 - 600 C.

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                            #43
                            Re: backwards or forwards

                            Your on the right track Richard ,the main reason I advocate doing MA at at close distance is one that only bird photographers will realise .i used to use a 400mm lens which was fine by moving on to a 600mm I very soon realised that it did absolutely no good to take the birds from further away as you get the same results as the 400 ,the obvious answer is get as close as a 400 and fill the frame more, even closer if possible as the sigma has a better close focus ability

                            So this makes doing a MA adjustment at a normal shooting length even more critical as Richard has pointed out DOF comes in to play at close ranges and with bird photography in particular a sharp eye is critical .

                            Hope this now clarifies my reasoning .

                            I would also like to point out that with the 80D and probably some other newer models when doing MA there are also two scales one for long range and one for close range ,I have set these both the same .it has obviously worked on my close up shots still really to find out if longer ranges I.e owls etc show any improvement

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                              #44
                              Re: backwards or forwards

                              I have a question for you. What software are you using to process the files? I have recently bought a 5D Mk IV and at first had to use DPP4 to process the RAW files. The results were stunning. When Adobe included support for the Mk IV I reverted to using Lightroom and was immediately struck by how flat looking the images were. Adobe are not privy to the Canon de-bayering algorithms and have to work it out for themselves and, my opinion, they haven't got it quite right for the 5D IV. As the 80D sensor uses similar technology this may be the cause of your problem. A friend with an 80D has had to setup a fairly sophisticated preset in Lightroom to get good results from his 80D. I haven't bothered instead I process the RAW files in DPP4 and save them as TIFF files for any further editing. Just a thought.
                              Alan

                              No longer using Canon but still teaching new Canon users (and others) the gentle art of Photography.

                              http://www.springfield-photography.com/

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                                #45
                                Re: backwards or forwards

                                i use lightroom for basic editing ,then finish off in photoshop with noise reduction software and then a nik efex program ,i did initially have a play with DPP4 and it might indeed be worth re-visiting to try again .my recent uploads of a buzzard and red squirrel were initially uploaded to aperture on the mac ,i have p/p them by exporting to lightroom then using my normal methods to finish .
                                although i am now reasonably happy with the 80D i am still tempted by either a 1d3 or 1d4 .

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