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    FF or not (on a budget)

    I have recently developed a desire for a full frame camera. Unfortunately, I can't really afford one, well certainly not new and not even a used 5D MK III. I can just stretch to a used 6D, another constraint also being that I have to budget for a decent lens to cover the wider end, at present the ancient “nifty fifty” is the widest I have. I'm OK at the longer end as the 200 mm L, and the Sigma 105 mm macro and 150 – 600 C will all fit FF.

    The question is, will it be worth my while? I have only really two photographic interests, nature and garden flowers. So most images will fall into one of two categories, close ups of individuals (flowers, insects, birds, fungi etc.) or wider “environmental” shots e.g. a woodland carpeted with bluebells, a meadow full of wild flowers or a herbaceous garden border. It's the second group where I feel the FF would improve things, I can get reasonably decent images using the crop sensor cameras, but they lack that smoothness which film would provide and which I hope FF would approach. It's the masses of detail in these scenes that make them tricky, petals, leaves, tree bark etc., where the crop sensor seems to struggle.

    I'm also interested to see how FF would work with my high magnification shots of (dead) insects etc with the MPE 65 mm and for photomicroscopy, both of which involve resolving lots of fine detail.

    This would very much be for static subjects, often on a tripod, no need for fast a/f, frame rate or high ISO use. While the 6d is the only choice for a current model, I could save somewhat on a 5d Mk II, old perhaps but in its day the most popular FF camera. I've seen lots of great images in the magazine and in many books using this, and very low usage examples are available for moderate prices.

    I'd be interested to hear what people think about this. Worth it, or not?
    EOS 6D, 6D Mk II, 80D, 70D, 100D, 200D, M50, M100. Canon 10-18, 18 - 55, 55 - 250 IS STM lenses, Canon 16 - 35 mm F4L, 35 mm EF-S macro, 50 mm F1.8 STM, 60 mm EF-S macro, MPE-65 macro, 85 mm F1.8, 200 mm F2.8 L II, M 15 - 45 mm, M 22mm F2, M 32mm F1.4. Sigma 24 - 35 F2 Art, 135 mm F1.8 Art, 17 - 50 F2.8 DC, 105 mm OS macro, 100 - 400 C, 150 - 600 C.

    #2
    Re: FF or not (on a budget)

    I know the financial constraints only to well Richard ,so your two full frame choices are probably as far as you can go ,the 6D being the newer sensor is possibly going to give better high ISO shots ,but the mkii is probably a more useable option .

    There is of course a further option which might suit all your interests a used 1D4. At 16mp a good choice and with a 1.3 crop worth looking at as the iq is not that far removed from full frame ,they tend to vary in price from £800 upwards for a decent one

    Comment


      #3
      Re: FF or not (on a budget)

      I have a 6D and here is the type of shot I imagine you mean.
      This was taken with a 24-105L Lens. Some of the flowers may be a bit blown but there's lots of detail in there.

      I also have friend with a 5DMKII who gets some excellent micro shots of bugs & insects.

      I think either would be fine - guess it depends on what you can find in the 2nd hand market. I can recommend MPB, their details are on the banner page of the forum.

      Good luck!

      6D_IMG_4997-1 by Bob Owen, on Flickr
      Last edited by bobowen; 29-12-2016, 08:56.
      Bob


      EOS 6D mkII, EOS 6D, BG-E13 Grip, EOS 30 (Film), EOS M5, EF-M 22mm f2.0, EF-M 18-150mm, 35mm f2.0 IS, 50mm f1.8 STM, 17-40 f4 L, 24-105 f4 L IS, 70-200f4 L IS, 430EX II, 270EX II, Manfrotto 190XDB +496RC2 tripod, Op Tech straps & Think Tank bags.

      Comment


        #4
        Re: FF or not (on a budget)

        Yes I think there is a difference in FF....both of the FF options above would be good....I know a 5D (MKI) owner who prefers its FF images over his crop sensor camera ....and a 24-105 MKi would be good for the wide end.
        Maybe the 5D or 5D2 would not focus as fast as your more modern crop sensor bodies...but if you don't need speed its not a problem.
        Brian Vickers LRPS

        brianvickersphotography.com

        Comment


          #5
          Re: FF or not (on a budget)

          I would go for the 5D , I have mk lll and am very pleased with it . I think the full frame will suit what your asking from it very well . If you keep the iso low , the quality I am sure will be very pleasing to you , it was for me .

          Comment


            #6
            Re: FF or not (on a budget)

            I would try to get a good 5D2 if you can, there are many around, and it is quite a step up from the 5D - not that there is a lot wrong with the 5D, just more dated features. (I have had both, and still use my 5D2.)
            Quentin

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              #7
              Re: FF or not (on a budget)

              Thanks for the comments, all appreciated.
              I'm very much inclined to the 6D now. I've found one very comprehensive list of comparative features of the 6D, 5D2 (and 5D3) and really the 5D2 has no obvious features missing from the 6D that I would need.

              Neither camera has a vari-angle LCD screen, which I find slightly disappointing in the 6D as earlier crop cameras had this. I anticipate a large number of my shots for planned projects over the next couple of years will be from very low down, e.g. to show an individual woodland flower, or group of flowers, in the foreground. I invested in a Manfrotto tripod with the horizontal centre column option, and the geared head to precisely set up shots such as these. With the 80D or 70D, it's pretty easy to use the vari-angle screen to set things up, but without it would mean virtually lying down to see the screen or viewfinder. With the 6D inbuilt WiFi I can use a tablet to control the camera and view the image in relative comfort. That's probably the most significant advantage.

              More minor 6D features which I prefer :
              Better high ISO performance
              Uses SD cards (I have plenty) rather than more expensive CF (which I'd have to buy)
              Control locations are much more similar to the 70D and 80D with which I am already familiar.
              Better AEB and HDR options (in-camera jpeg HDR, plus choice of 2,3,5 or 7 AEB shots)
              Inbuilt GPS might sometimes be useful.

              Image quality seems generally pretty similar, 6D with slight edge.
              Used, the 5D2 comes in (condition and S/C being similar) a little cheaper, but not that much.

              The main disadvantages which reviewers go on about (for both cameras) are the small number of a/f points and the slow frame rate making them less useful for action, but I'm happy to use the 80D for that.

              I'm now looking at lens choice, several possibilities but it won't be any of the 24 – 70 or 24 – 105 L options, I prefer to focus on best quality at the moderate wide angle end, 24 – 28 mm area, which I can find better elsewhere. For my interests, I rarely use the 40 – 100 range.
              EOS 6D, 6D Mk II, 80D, 70D, 100D, 200D, M50, M100. Canon 10-18, 18 - 55, 55 - 250 IS STM lenses, Canon 16 - 35 mm F4L, 35 mm EF-S macro, 50 mm F1.8 STM, 60 mm EF-S macro, MPE-65 macro, 85 mm F1.8, 200 mm F2.8 L II, M 15 - 45 mm, M 22mm F2, M 32mm F1.4. Sigma 24 - 35 F2 Art, 135 mm F1.8 Art, 17 - 50 F2.8 DC, 105 mm OS macro, 100 - 400 C, 150 - 600 C.

              Comment


                #8
                Re: FF or not (on a budget)

                FF & crop cameras have their uses. I use a 6D for landscapes,church ,festivals and other similar subjects and use my crop camera soley for wildlife photography.
                Canon 6D; Canon 760D;Canon G15;Canon 40mm f2.8(Pancake);Canon 50mm f1.8(ii); Canon 17mm-40mm f4L;Canon EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM;Canon EF-S 55-250mm f4-5.6 STM lens;Canon 24mm-105mmf4L IS;Canon 70-300mm f4-f5.6 L IS USM;Kenko 1.4x HD TC;Canon 430EX ii flash;Giottos tripod;Manfretto monopod;Cokin P filters + bits and pieces!

                www.flickr.com/photos/nathaniel3390

                North Wales where music and the sea give a great concert!

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: FF or not (on a budget)

                  ...using a tablet/phone for the viewfinder sounds like a distinct advantage for you.
                  You could get a cheap angle-finder for the non articulating screen cameras of course....but not a comfortable option.
                  Brian Vickers LRPS

                  brianvickersphotography.com

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: FF or not (on a budget)

                    Well, I've ordered the 6D, in very good condition with less than 8,000 shutter count.

                    Nat, my ideas are very much the same as yours, the 6D for more sedentary subjects, 80D for wildlife such as birds and macro. I've seen a lot of your photos with the 6D, very impressed with the quality and one of the reasons I went for it.

                    I'm surprised more people don't seem to use the computer/tablet control by WiFI method, I already use it for photomicroscopy where depth of field is more or less zero (no stopping down of a microscope objective lens) and where multiple shots need to be stacked to get a decent image.

                    I've also ordered a wide angle coverage lens, it's a bit different and I'll report on it when I've had some use from it.

                    New Year's resolution (MUST be kept) = DON'T BUY ANY MORE KIT! Honestly................
                    EOS 6D, 6D Mk II, 80D, 70D, 100D, 200D, M50, M100. Canon 10-18, 18 - 55, 55 - 250 IS STM lenses, Canon 16 - 35 mm F4L, 35 mm EF-S macro, 50 mm F1.8 STM, 60 mm EF-S macro, MPE-65 macro, 85 mm F1.8, 200 mm F2.8 L II, M 15 - 45 mm, M 22mm F2, M 32mm F1.4. Sigma 24 - 35 F2 Art, 135 mm F1.8 Art, 17 - 50 F2.8 DC, 105 mm OS macro, 100 - 400 C, 150 - 600 C.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: FF or not (on a budget)

                      Richard, I am glad you went for the 6D. It will certainly not disappoint you & at a fraction of the cost of the 5D mk3!!! Glad you liked my pics with this camera.
                      Canon 6D; Canon 760D;Canon G15;Canon 40mm f2.8(Pancake);Canon 50mm f1.8(ii); Canon 17mm-40mm f4L;Canon EF-S 10-18mm f4.5-5.6 IS STM;Canon EF-S 55-250mm f4-5.6 STM lens;Canon 24mm-105mmf4L IS;Canon 70-300mm f4-f5.6 L IS USM;Kenko 1.4x HD TC;Canon 430EX ii flash;Giottos tripod;Manfretto monopod;Cokin P filters + bits and pieces!

                      www.flickr.com/photos/nathaniel3390

                      North Wales where music and the sea give a great concert!

                      Comment

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