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    Copyright issue

    For over 25 years I've been a volunteer supporter of my local Wildlife Trust. Recently, I received an email asking all volunteers to sign a new form, they say "to make sure that we have everyone’s up to date details" Fair enough. However, I on the back of the form it says (among other things) :

    "I agree to assign copyright of any material I produce to ............. Wildlife Trust. I understand that ...WT may use my work, in any of its publications, electronic or printed, without requiring my specific consent on each occasion on which it may choose to do so. This shall include leaflets, printed information material, printed magazines, website, emails, social media and any other print or electronic format. I understand that this means the organisation has control of copyright for material / work I produce and that I shall not receive any payment for copyright on materials. Wherever possible, ............Wildlife Trust will credit me by name as the producer of the material used."

    Now I have no objection to the Trust using any photos etc. for their own use, it's part of supporting them. But "to assign copyright" implies that they have complete control of everything. Naturally, I won't be signing off to this. I had intended to spend most of this year photographing in a couple of their nature reserves, with the intention of producing full illustrated accounts, which would be distributed freely into the public domain. But, I would insist that text and images would remain my copyright not theirs. After all, it's all my work.

    I wonder what others think. It seems to me that this is part of an increasing trend for organisations to be control freaks when it comes to photography.
    EOS 6D, 6D Mk II, 80D, 70D, 100D, 200D, M50, M100. Canon 10-18, 18 - 55, 55 - 250 IS STM lenses, Canon 16 - 35 mm F4L, 35 mm EF-S macro, 50 mm F1.8 STM, 60 mm EF-S macro, MPE-65 macro, 85 mm F1.8, 200 mm F2.8 L II, M 15 - 45 mm, M 22mm F2, M 32mm F1.4. Sigma 24 - 35 F2 Art, 135 mm F1.8 Art, 17 - 50 F2.8 DC, 105 mm OS macro, 100 - 400 C, 150 - 600 C.

    #2
    Re: Copyright issue

    I totally agree Richard....looks like standard text that they might use for contracts of employment.
    I guess the rights to use the images depends on the status of the grounds...are they private....or by definition public.....do they have any more authority on their sites than the public....because they have chosen to be guardians doesn't give them any exclusivity?
    I would guess that if they are not in a position to deny public access then they are unlikely to have any rights to photos....just my thoughts.
    Brian Vickers LRPS

    brianvickersphotography.com

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      #3
      Re: Copyright issue

      I suspect that this is an area worth discussing with a professional law talker rather than us mess hall lawyers ;)
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        #4
        Re: Copyright issue

        Based on the text you included, my interpretation would be that WT would have copyright of EVERYTHING you create and not just materials created specifically on their behalf. I'm sure their intention is only regarding materials produced on their behalf but that's not what the text states. When parties start having contractual agreements they must be exact and specific. It's not a clause I would sign.

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          #5
          Re: Copyright issue

          Most definetly a big NO NO ,please do not consider this as they are offering no payment and only a credit .please refer to my post re pixsys update ,we simply do not realise the worth of our photos ,I have just been informed by pixsys that I have filled in my payment claim forms o.k and I will receive my first payment of 230 euros shortly I.e up to 30 days .
          I was and still am very sceptical of them but up to now it seems legit ,once the monies have been paid I will be screaming it out though ,still got lot going through the system to .

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            #6
            Re: Copyright issue

            As written it's an out and out copyright grab. Agree to this and it appears they will own the copyright to any picture you take. You say 'among other things' so were there additional clauses specifying pictures taken on Trust property whilst carrying out work for and/or on behalf of the Trust? A clause limiting their rights only to pictures taken under the auspices of trust activity would probably be acceptable under the law.

            If they get stroppy about you not signing it I would suggest first advising them that you consider the terms unreasonable and will be taking legal advice. If they then continue being awkward about it I'd say you either do take legal or advise them that in the circumstances and in the face of their unreasonable behaviour that you are no longer able to volunteer.

            Might be worth complaining to the overall governing body for wildlife trusts as well.
            Nigel

            You may know me from Another Place....

            The new ElSid Photogallery...

            Equipment: Far too much to list - including lots of Nikon...

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              #7
              Re: Copyright issue

              I certainly wouldn't sign this. The wording implies they could use your work, sell it to someone else and receive payment and you'd get nothing.
              It's your work, in principle they should be paying you. If you want to let them use your images for nothing that's your decision but passing on copyright, definitely no.
              Canon 5D3, 7D2, 60D, Canon 70-200L f2.8 IS II, Canon 300 f4L IS, Canon 16-35 f4 L, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, Canon 1.4 MkIII extender, Sigma AF 10-20mm f/3.5 EX DC HSM, Sigma 150-600 Contemporary, Tamron SP AF 70-300 F/4-5.6 Di VC USD, Canon EF-S 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS
              https://www.flickr.com/photos/16830751@N03/

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                #8
                Re: Copyright issue

                Hi,

                Just to put a slightly different view on this, perhaps they have to do this to protect themselves. For instance someone may have produced something for them and when they used it in a publication, the person sued them for breach of copyright.

                Just a thought

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Copyright issue

                  Actually it limits it to use for Trust materials. It clearly says "...any of its publications..." which means that they can use it in their stuff, but can't legally sell it. The Control of Copyright section is improperly worded. It should state "...within its own publications..." which would grant a personal use license to the organization. That would protect them from lawsuits based on the conflicting wording of the "...any of its publications..." statement. I would have my lawyer review it and give a written declination stating why so they know their legal team made a booboo...
                  https://www.flickr.com/photos/23748789@N02/

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                    #10
                    Re: Copyright issue

                    Thanks for the comments.
                    I'm still not sure exactly what they are trying to say. The first sentence says "I agree to assign copyright of any material I produce to ............. Wildlife Trust" which is very broad, the rest then proceeds to discuss only Trust materials. If the latter is all they mean, then I don't have a problem, but I won't sign it unless the wording of the first sentence is changed. I did reply to them for clarification but have received no reply. I'll wait a while then ask again, copying the email to others higher up the management hierarchy in the Trust. This was part of a longer document, mainly dealing with health and safety etc., but seemed totally out of place.
                    This has nothing to do with money as I don't intend to sell any images, even if they were saleable, just a matter of principle. My work is mine.
                    EOS 6D, 6D Mk II, 80D, 70D, 100D, 200D, M50, M100. Canon 10-18, 18 - 55, 55 - 250 IS STM lenses, Canon 16 - 35 mm F4L, 35 mm EF-S macro, 50 mm F1.8 STM, 60 mm EF-S macro, MPE-65 macro, 85 mm F1.8, 200 mm F2.8 L II, M 15 - 45 mm, M 22mm F2, M 32mm F1.4. Sigma 24 - 35 F2 Art, 135 mm F1.8 Art, 17 - 50 F2.8 DC, 105 mm OS macro, 100 - 400 C, 150 - 600 C.

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                      #11
                      Re: Copyright issue

                      Richard, I agree with your concerns. From their point of view, I suspect they just want to know that if you produce an image (or write an article or do some research or whatever) that they have the right to use this for their own benefit without having to keep asking your permission. This seems a reasonable trade-off for granting you some form of additional access as a volunteer. My concern is that what they are proposing, i.e. transfer of copyright, is a sledgehammer to crack a nut and is far too heavily weighted in their favour (with terms like 'any material I produce etc). In your shoes, I think I would want to be the one that defines what can and cannot be done with your images so I suggest that in any discussion you need to propose some alternative wording that meets their needs but in which you retain copyright and the freedom to use the images in the way that you see fit. I suspect this will be in the form of a non-exclusive licence to use your images in their publications, but you will clearly wish to seek professional advice (although I suspect that there may be templates for such licences out there on the internet if you look).
                      My only concern would be if this is a recommended form of words that has come from up high whether anyone that you deal with has the authority to go against it, and whether they feel it is worth the effort of negotiating the words to retain you as a volunteer. You may have a tough decision to make after 25 years of support, but I hope it doesn't come to that.
                      Let us know what you decide to do and how it goes.
                      Canon EOS 7D
                      EF-S 10-22mm 1:3.5-4.5 USM, EF 24-105mm 1:4 L IS USM, EF 50mm 1:1.8, EF 70-300mm 1:4-5.6 IS USM
                      Luminar 4, Aurora HDR Pro, Silver Efex
                      flickr: http://flic.kr/ps/LXWuy

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                        #12
                        Re: Copyright issue

                        Originally posted by H2OJunkie View Post
                        Actually it limits it to use for Trust materials.
                        With respect, I disagree. The first sentence stands alone and applies to "any material I produce". The scope of that first sentence needs to be constrained otherwise they not only could but automatically do acquire copyright to everything produced.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Copyright issue

                          I suspect this has to do with the Trustees. Years ago, they were all keen natural history enthusiasts and volunteers. Today, as the Trust (like most charities) has become much larger, they are all (mostly retired) business executives, bankers, a solicitor etc., who are perhaps less in touch with the volunteer ethos than they should be.

                          Of course, there is nothing to stop me going out as a normal Trust member, or even member of the public, but it's a matter of principle.

                          I believe organisations such as the National Trust have established that images of their buildings, gardens etc are their intellectual property, hence published images of those always show "by kind permission of the National Trust". I wonder how far this goes, for example a landscape view of land owned by them in the Lake District? Or what about an image of a bird taken on their land?
                          EOS 6D, 6D Mk II, 80D, 70D, 100D, 200D, M50, M100. Canon 10-18, 18 - 55, 55 - 250 IS STM lenses, Canon 16 - 35 mm F4L, 35 mm EF-S macro, 50 mm F1.8 STM, 60 mm EF-S macro, MPE-65 macro, 85 mm F1.8, 200 mm F2.8 L II, M 15 - 45 mm, M 22mm F2, M 32mm F1.4. Sigma 24 - 35 F2 Art, 135 mm F1.8 Art, 17 - 50 F2.8 DC, 105 mm OS macro, 100 - 400 C, 150 - 600 C.

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                            #14
                            Re: Copyright issue

                            It sounds to me as if they are bit miffed at the fact that someone can take a photo on their reserve, publish it and get paid for it (possibly handsomely) and they get nothing out of it. As a retired Scottish solicitor (note the emphasis on the first two!) I wouldn't sign up to it. It seems to me to be far too vague in a lot of what it says which could make it legally unenforceable but I wouldn't like to take my chances in the Court without getting a proper legal opinion. I think it just shows that we are living in an increasingly mercenary world and if someone can make dosh out of something they will have a damned good try.

                            scotsdave
                            EOS 5D; EOS 7D; 50mm f1.8 (mk I); 28/80mm f3.5/5.6 (Mk IV); 24/105mm f4 L IS; 70/200mm f4 L IS; 1.4 X TC; Sigma 10/20mm f3.5 DC HSM; Sigma 18/50mm f2.8/4.5 DC OS HSM; Speedlite 430EX II.

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                              #15
                              Re: Copyright issue

                              To be fair, I do think their main aim is to get photos to use in their own materials and I doubt if they have even thought about selling things. I suspect that it was put in without being thought through properly. Most of the images in their publications and on the web site do actually have copyright notices with the name of the photographer, not the Trust.

                              One of the Trustees is a very keen nature photographer and also a retired solicitor and if I don't get an answer from the staff, I'll see what she has to say.
                              EOS 6D, 6D Mk II, 80D, 70D, 100D, 200D, M50, M100. Canon 10-18, 18 - 55, 55 - 250 IS STM lenses, Canon 16 - 35 mm F4L, 35 mm EF-S macro, 50 mm F1.8 STM, 60 mm EF-S macro, MPE-65 macro, 85 mm F1.8, 200 mm F2.8 L II, M 15 - 45 mm, M 22mm F2, M 32mm F1.4. Sigma 24 - 35 F2 Art, 135 mm F1.8 Art, 17 - 50 F2.8 DC, 105 mm OS macro, 100 - 400 C, 150 - 600 C.

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