Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

[Robert Scott]

I have received the following from an EOS magazine subscriber about the cover image on the latest issue of EOS magazine.

"I am a wildlife photographer and was delighted to see a wonderful photo of a robin on the front cover.
However, I was extremely upset to read the following on page 4 - Andrew Fuesk Peters says "The light from the Speedlites caused a disturbance and made the robin ready to fly. It was this action that I caught on camera”
The RPS nature photographers code of practice clearly states that “the welfare of the subject is more important than the photograph”
How can someone who disturbs a bird to get ‘that shot’ feel proud.
I will be interested on your and any of your readers thoughts on this."

I have replied saying that "I frequently disturb birds, including a robin, in my garden simply by going out to replenish the bird feeder, water the flowers and other mundane tasks. I am not aware that this is detrimental to the welfare of the birds. Taking photographs of common birds away from their nests and without young is unlikely to cause problems. As far as I know, flash has not been shown to harm wildlife."

If you have views on this, please post them in this thread.

[ctrollen]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

I have not yet seen the magazine or the shot but from your post the complainer states that the photographer was "proud" which doesn't match the photographer's quote.

Anyway, whilst I wouldn't countenance deliberately causing disturbance to get a shot, I agree that accidentally causing it, via flash or going to fill up the feeder, is nothing to be too concerned about.

[colin C]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

I have never known flash to be an issue Robert. In my experience, it would have been more likely that the shutter noise caused the reaction.

Equally, I am very much aware of codes of practice towards birds and wildlife, both in this and other countries and feel that your complainant may be taking too fine a view regarding what constitutes welfare. Welfare and disturbance are not the same things and just being in a bird rich environment could disturb some of the birds, but is it adversely affecting their welfare? Under normal circumstances, no.

I always respect the wildlife I photograph and have spent many years developing the fieldcraft necessary to get the shot, without conflict to the subject's welfare. However, there will be times, perhaps when the wind direction changes, or I step on a small twig, that I may disturb the subject. Whether they move away, or just look in my direction, I know I need to back-off and wait until things settle down. I am comfortable that it's a disturbance and not a welfare issue. Check out the RSPB Magazine: there are generally a number of shots that have been taken using flash and by their own standards, if they were that concerned they would not have published the shots, would they?

I have no doubt that the complainant is not a "Troll", or a "Serial Complainer" and it is right and proper that we should consider and debate our actions, but on this occasion, nothing to be ashamed about. You can disturb more birds by walking out into your garden, or walking through your town centre, again without meaning to.

[TonyT]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

Andrew Fuesk Peters says "The light from the Speedlites caused a disturbance and made the robin ready to fly.

And that there is one reason I cannot see an issue, that was an observation noted after the shot was taken, in no way, shape, or form could he ever know that the light would disturb the bird, or to be honest if it ever did, it was simply an observation he made based on his preconception of what took place. The simple fact is birds as any wild animals are naturally nervous of man and will take flight if you simply walk along a path. I can understand the argument if you are deliberately causing an animal or bird distress to get that shot, but this is far removed from that.

In India, the Jains sweep the ground in front of them so as not to inadvertently kill any insects, which oddly enough could be read as deliberately disturbing insects, rather a case of you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

As for the quote it clearly states "the welfare of the subject is more important than the photograph” if you read the guide, link below

http://www.rps.org/adminuploads/external/images/nature@rps.org/Nature%20Photographers%20Code%20of%20Practice.pdf

I do feel it is being taken out of context, as it needs to be read as a whole, and not cherry picking single lines. By using the words prefacing it "There is one hard and fast rule, who's spirit must be obeserved at all times" reads to me as best practice as opposed to cast in stone. Let's face it, if one didn't want to ever disturb wildlife we would never ever have an image of them.

[the black fox]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

I have never yet known a flashgun disturb birds even from extremely close distances ,or for that matter the clatter of high speed shutters in fact if anything the birds seem to be attracted to the sound of the shutters looking at them quizzically and often giving us the desired effect .
The only two things that in fact disturbs birds is getting to close I.e within there circle of confidence (hence the use of hides /screens/camouflage/cars ) or the main cause fast movement .
In the case of this comment and not knowing who made it ,it imho probably comes from someone who having recently purchased a super zoom lens then classes themselves as a wildlife photographer . There are plenty out there all the gear and no idea LOL

[Trev B]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

Some may not like this. Since starting to read the above post some thirty minutes ago, I been watching the birds on my bird table and feeders. There's been on average twelve birds the whole time, these include Great, Blue and Coal tits, Great spotted WP and a juv, blackbirds, chaffinch and Greenfinch, plus two Jays and three squirrels on the ground. I have just hand fired my flash gun (580EX) out the window. Not one bird or squirrel moved. They just kept on feeding and coming and going as normal.

[Trev B]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

Since submitting my last post ten minutes ago the postman arrived, he sat in the van for a few minutes sorting his round - the birds carried on feeding plus the ground feeders. They scattered the minute he open the van door, most were back before he returned to the van with only a few flying off as he passed. I think Robert Scott complainant would have heart failure if he knew what went on in the world of documentary wildlife film making.

[Enigma]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

Firstly, it's a great image and worthy of being a front cover. Reading through the article the photographer comes across as dedicated and prepared to invest both time and money in preparation to try and capture "the perfect shot." He's also willing to share his experience which is excellent.

I have no problems with the circumstances associated with the image.

I don't think we should be too harsh towards the "complainer" though. He is perhaps either genuinely concerned for wildlife or possibly a photographer who does not like what he might consider to be "cheating."

Browsing through these fora one reads of far more serious real disturbances of wildlife - loose dogs, obnoxious barging Puffin tourists, inconsiderate hide occupants ...

Fantastic cover image with absolutely no dubious ethics associated with its capture, but let's also always try and appreciate the other person's point of view even when it may be incorrect ...

Now, back to the cornflakes!

[colin C]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

imho probably comes from someone who having recently purchased a super zoom lens then classes themselves as a wildlife photographer . There are plenty out there all the gear and no idea LOL

I heard that, pardon!

I have a super zoom and I am a wildlife photographer and I ................. no, lost it ............. forgot what I was going to say ............. no idea!

[AndyMulhearn]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

I don't think we should be too harsh towards the "complainer" though. He is perhaps either genuinely concerned for wildlife or possibly a photographer who does not like what he might consider to be "cheating."

Nicely put. And in addition, people don't inherently know everything and one way to learn is to ask questions.

I don't have any real issue with the shot or how it was achieved, although my personal preference is to not use flash. But that's my personal preference and I see no reason for others not to use it if that's how they work.

[Nathaniel]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

I must agree with Jeff and Trev above. I have used my on board (on my 760D) flash many times to take some pics of Sparrows hiding within shrubs and other birds on feeders and none of them flew away. Birds are quite used to see lightning in the wild and that might be the explanation why birds are not bothered when flash is used.

[EOS_User]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

Storm in a tea-cup about one unfortunate choice of a single word!!!!!

Perhaps if the author had described the event as 'startling' the bird, rather than 'caused a disturbance' I doubt anyone would have raised an eyebrow! There are multitudes of international award winning images of birds taken with flash... Flash is not known to cause any undue harm or disturbance to birds, and Robins in particular are as bold as they get. (Our territorial Robins follow us about within 3/4 feet when we're gardening looking for an opportune morsel, and rarely flinch when we turn...)

It's a magnificent image and I'm sure the author will be sorely disappointed that it has caused a stir; but you can't please all the people all the time; and we, in the land of the free, are entitled to have our say - even if others disagree...

Perhaps Robert could invite the author to respond???

Perhaps the complainant (for want of a better description) would like to respond???

As an aside; well done to Robert & the team for getting the mag out before the start of the quarter

[colin C]

Re: Photo of robin on the cover of the July-September 2017 issue of EOS magazine

Nicely put.