Shooting in RAW?

[colin C]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

If you can nail every shot to within a 1/3rd stop, get the white balance spot on every time, shadow and highlight detail correct and just the right amount of contrast and colour saturation, then join Joe and use Jpegs exclusively. I have seen and admired his work many times, in magazines and on the net and you can't fault the quality, within the size that it's presented.

Unfortunately, I am human and sometimes I make mistakes, misread the lighting conditions, relied on the camera when I should have trusted my instincts, or just got carried away with shooting and ignored the technical side. In any of those circumstances, shooting in RAW gives me a second bite of the cherry to get things right. Many corrections can be done in photoshop, but in most cases, it's a destructive process. Whatever changes I make to a RAW file, it isn't destructive and I still have that original RAW file intact.

I used to shoot Jpeg and now I shoot RAW and I wouldn't go to the extra trouble unless I got tangibly better results. Being an ex pro, I know many working pro's who don't shoot RAW and there are specific reasons why every time. A portrait tog who does everything from Vogue shots to school photo's - she has her lighting set-ups and camera settings that nail the shots. A Forensics tog who must use Jpegs and no post capture alterations. Press togs who need the speed and quality doesn't matter (their words). All others I know are very much RAW advocates, for reasons previously described.

Lastly, if you have developed any RAW skills, you can coax that extra bit of quality out of a shot. My objective is to wow people with the shot and then impress them with the quality ........................... I'll let you know if it ever happens!

Colin

[MX5]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

A very good response ColinC. I've been using RAW for I guess nearly 10 years (firstly with Noink and now Canon) and it's just second nature. The only time I have to think about it is when someone asks me about it. If I think there's a risk ... I tell them to use JPEG (Best Quality) + RAW ... if I think there isn't a risk then pure RAW (or perhaps RAW + small JPEG depending upon the indivisuals need).

But yep ... it's been said before it's the Marmite factor (and we are talking Real British Marmite here or even better Marmite XO).

But we'll never agree on this vexed question ... so each to their own.

[stalker]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

One thing they miss in advocating JPEG is that a lot of people like to tweak the photo before saving - anything from a minor crop upwards.. - which means then saving a JPEG from a JPEG, so surely the quality difference between the formats gets amplified at this point..

[colin C]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

Extremely good point Stalker and one that is often ignored.

Colin

[Trevoreast]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

Ya,
Anything requiring further editing after raw processing ideally needs to be exported as a tiff.
For the reason Stalker says.

Changing the WB is one of the main things I lke, either accurate WB or creative adjustments.

Sure we'd like to get it right in the camera, you can’t make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but there’s no law against polishing a diamond. : smile:
If you have the tools to improve an image you should use them if you can.
Trev

[Longshot]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

Thanks David, yes I understand the theory of RAW and the benifits BUT digital imaging is a whole new world to me. Yes I've can crop and auto enhance and that's about it !! I upgraded from a G9 3 months ago and maybe I'm digging to deep into what a 50D can do with out working on the basics.
Cheers
Graham

[Undercrank]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

http://www.michaelfurtman.com/jpeg_myths.htm

[colin C]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

An interesting article and well argued but, read it carefully and he is saying that:

* RAW is superior.

* Jpeg keeps losing during every save.

He is also saying that the loss isn't as much as many believe and I don't disagree with him, but look at the steps he is proposing during his summary to minimise that loss!

He also states that he sent RAW and Jpeg images to a Magazine Editor for comment and there was negligible difference. If the shot had the detail of the hawk there probably wouldn't be. If it was a shot with lots of flat areas of subtle colour, the difference would stand out a mile.

He knows Pro photographers that shoot Jpeg's, because the write speed is faster and the file size is smaller. That's fine. Their work is going into publications, normally at a 1/4 column and if they are very lucky, a front cover. That front cover is around A4 size, it has a big graphic title across the top and headlines and smaller pictures of what's inside. In short, more than enough to disguise and distract from any minor quality issues of the shot.

The big issue for me is, I don't know in advance which of my shots is going to be a stunner ............... if any! But if and when I get that shot, it's going to be printed a lot bigger than A4 and I shall want every ounce of quality out of it. I won't want pixelation, Jpeg artifacts and digital noise.

Here endeth "Thoughts of Colin".

Colin

[MX5]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

Just to sum up what ColinC is saying (well my understanding) ... RAW is a form of insurance in my mind. You can easily batch generate JPEG from a RAW (or let the camera do both) so you can't lose.

For those who don't want workflows ... then fine use JPEGs. For those who aren't at home with software to manipulate images ... then fine use JPEGs.

I know RAW is like Marmite XO ... and it's not the case that real men don't shoot inJPEG.

[Trevoreast]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

You can easily batch generate JPEG from a RAW

You can batch convert to
Jpgs
8 or 16bit tiffs,
8 bit tiff and jpg simultaneously
16 bit tiff and jpg simultaneously
Trev

[eeyore]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

It is at this point, I 'll say:

This is where the intelligence of the photographer comes in, knowing what each file format does, and what he/she intends to do with the file image. Knowing clearly in your mind what you want to achieve, and then knowing which method will best achieve that, rather than reading what everyone else does, and using 'that' method just because it is trendy!
The above mentioned article informs us not to dismiss the JPEG format, just because people some say it is inferior!
In order to chose which format is better, one just has to read the available information, experiment and use plain common sense to which is the best method for the intended purposes!

[Ian_rw]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

I shoot RAW because I like using non destructive adjustment leaving my original file as taken. The size of the files today is an irrelevance as storage is so cheap with a 2TB disk at under 200€ and 16GB UDMA CF card at under 100€ so what's the point of compressing the files in the camera and loosing image data??

[ruddles]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

Speaking as an recent newcomer to photography, I can honestly say that had it not been for being able to salvage my attempts in raw, I would probably have swapped my new dslr for a point and shoot. Knowing nothing about photography, but having to learn quickly for my work, I have struggled with cameras in general, photoshop in particular, colour management... you name it. So, for me, the additional features of raw were a revelation and good to learn and use. I doubt I would have become involved with all this as a hobby and have tried to approach things from a professional angle rather than as just an enthusiast. I found that fumbling about with raw led me to take a much larger view of the subject and what I was trying to do. So, I like and use raw because I am currently so crap at photography that I need it and it allows me to progress with all its benefits while I learn the hard way.

I think RAW is a valuable tool to be used as and when needed and the more I learn, the more I like it and now I'm used to using dpp and the eos utility (and blown out PSE8) I feel I have at last started to get somewhere. But, I take note of what is said about the life expectancy of image file formats and will be looking into that subject now.

Perhaps canon should bring out a RAWPEG format

[colin C]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

Perhaps canon should bring out a RAWPEG format

To an extent they have. It's called mRAW or sRAW.

Colin

[dougie66]

Re: Shooting in RAW?

I shoot in RAW all the time. I get more control over my image and I don't lose any data from it as you do with a JPEG every time you open or try to change it.