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Wild or Captive, does it matter?

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    #16
    Re: Wild or Captive, does it matter?

    Really comprehensive response from Colin in my opinion and I would't disagree with any of it.

    I've been to Gigrin to photograph red kites and to a trout farm near Rutland to photograph ospreys. These birds are obviously wild but are artificially attracted to the locations. I feel the same about feeding stations to attract woodlands birds and even setting up feeders in the garden and putting more attractive perches alongside them to get a natural looking shot. Are these birds genuinely wild or starting to become tame?

    I've always stated if an animal is captive. In some respects I think captive is more of a challenge because you often have to deal with an unnatural background. I have two excellent zoos (even though they don't like to use the word zoo) near me and will spend a long time waiting for an animal to get in front of vegetation to make the shot appear more natural, rather than have a mesh background.

    I think one area where, for me, a shot taken in the wild will always score over a captive one, is shot satisfaction. For example, some years ago I was in Skye and managed a shot, in very poor light, of an otter on some rocks on the shoreline. I've also taken much better otter shots, which can look quite natural, at the British Wildlife Centre. The genuine wild ones gave me much more satisfaction. though 'photographically', nowhere near as good.

    John

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      #17
      Re: Wild or Captive, does it matter?

      Quite agree with both Colin and John's comments.

      Go to Skye often and whilst I've seen otters many times they have always to distant for photography. Really enjoyed taking images of them at BWC but would still like to photograph them in their natural environment.
      Canon 5D3, 7D2, 60D, Canon 70-200L f2.8 IS II, Canon 300 f4L IS, Canon 16-35 f4 L, Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, Canon 1.4 MkIII extender, Sigma AF 10-20mm f/3.5 EX DC HSM, Sigma 150-600 Contemporary, Tamron SP AF 70-300 F/4-5.6 Di VC USD, Canon EF-S 18-55mm 1:3.5-5.6 IS
      https://www.flickr.com/photos/16830751@N03/

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        #18
        Re: Wild or Captive, does it matter?

        Thanks for all the replies Guys, much appreciated. I can see a lot of thought had gone into many of the replies with some thought provoking content too.

        For me I don't think there is a right or wrong, first of all not everyone has the same opportunities to catch certain animals or birds in the wild, a good example for that would be the Brown Hares I see and photograph a lot of, firstly I think they are a wonderful animal and I just love to sit and watch their antics, trying to learn their ways, but I happen to live where there are many of them, I have seen many comments on here and other sites from people who literally haven't seen one for years.

        Another favourite for me is Owls and again am lucky to live near where some live and hunt, I don't blame anyone for going to a Wildlife Park or similar if it gives them an opportunity to photograph these beautiful creatures.

        Mastering the art of the photographic technique is a part of the enjoyment and satisfaction of 'nailing' the shot, and that surely can be gained and improved upon from either captive or wild animals.

        Another aspect is surely time available with the camera, I am lucky enough to be retired so have lots of time available, (when SWMBO allows it anyway) had I still been working with much less time, I am sure I would be frequenting wildlife Parks in an attempt to increase my chances of actually getting something in the viewfinder.

        So I suppose after all my blather I really mean, each to their own and I for one would never criticise a shot for being taken of something captive

        Thanks again to everyone who contributed

        Paul

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          #19
          Re: Wild or Captive, does it matter?

          wild or captive a photo speaks for itself. I have been blessed by the gods by living in Kenya. Others are not so fortunate. the reality of it all is wild animals should not be in captivity. the truth is sometime its the lesser of two evils. As long as the animal is healthy and content, it's the photo that matters.
          Last edited by CasaRova; 18-09-2019, 12:26.

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            #20
            Re: Wild or Captive, does it matter?

            The trouble is man cannot be trusted to maintain a species in its natural enviroment everytime, hence the dwindling numbers in some species only kept going due to captive breeding initiatives.
            I photograph at a local aviary as does Roy and the birds appear to be well cared for, one of the advantages it has are the macaws etc are all free flying, they are free from cages and have no contraptions on their legs bar being ringed, they could if they chose fly off and they are seen in the trees around the site, they choose to stay and return at night to their cages to roost.
            Sort of a free flying tame bird I suppose, most are rescued too, which is even better.They also have a walk through Aviary with a pond stream and trees for some of the birds to live in. Most of my Bird photography tends to be out in the real world though.

            I have no qualms about photographing stuff in zoos or aviaries as long as they are well cared for and have "room to breath" it is when you see elephants and bears or the like in tiny enclosures I disagree with the policy.
            Last edited by TonyT; 17-09-2019, 13:34.
            Canon 1DX, 50D, EF500 F4.0 L, EF100-400 f/4.5-5.6L I , EF100-400 f/4.5-5.6L II, EF70-200 f/2.8L II, EF180 f3.5L Macro, EF 24-105 f/4L, EF17-40 f/4L, EF2.0X III, EF1.4X III, 430EX II, MR-14EX...

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              #21
              Re: Wild or Captive, does it matter?

              What a can of worms Paul , but you are asking for opinions right ? If it was captive or you payed to visit where it`s already been set up and baited why not admit it ? I am not saying what is right or wrong , but for ME ,regarding Wildlife photography , part of how good you are is how good your fieldcrafts are , It`s all going to be personal opinion , I never feel satisfied photographing captive animals or birds , and doubt I would ever hang such a thing on my wall , because to me it has an air of easiness to it and lack of achievement . I doubt very much I would hang anything on my wall where I had cloned or added something to it either , that is like a lie as its not what you took and it would haunt me . Sometime ago I posted a question on here about how much people crop there images in Wildlife photography , most people wouldn`t comment or see anything wrong with making that original small spot in the frame bird photo into a stonking full frame looking image . I wish it was law to post original untouched Wildlife photos along with the enhanced versions , that`s the only way I could truly judge how good a photo is as with peoples different enhancement skills and gear it`s not a level playing field . I am not saying I don`t crop or enhance my photos , but less of it will always be more , if you going to deceive people with how you got your photos , it`s you that has to live with it . There will always always be exceptions , but for me I rate a truly wild image much higher than I do of a captive or payed for baited one , weather you put the work in or just got lucky . Yes there is lots of waisted time , frustration ect in real Wildlife photography , but when it all comes together , it`s so so much more satisfying and rewarding when you do eventually nail it , at least that`s how I see it .

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                #22
                Re: Wild or Captive, does it matter?

                Well said Tony!

                Remember too that we haven't all got access to our own land and hides,ponds etc;or indeed the kit to get those shots in the wild.Therefore if Tony gives me the chance to go to Tropical Birdland,or my local coach firm runs a trip to Chester Zoo etc,I'm taking it so I can at least try out some wildlife shots occasionally.

                In the past on here when certain people have voiced their disapproval of'captive'bird and animal shots,and no doubt will continue to do so,that's fine by me,we are all entitled to our opinions,but please don't be so arrogant to think that'only things in the wild'count.

                By all means comment on the technical merits(or otherwise)of a shot,composition etc,but don't just write it off because it's not a wild bird or animal.

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                  #23
                  Re: Wild or Captive, does it matter?

                  Lets face it, landscapes, not much natural in the UK anymore, it would once have been all forest until man intervened, photos of flowers, a lot will not be native to the UK, or be captive in gardens.

                  It's a tricky position to decide what is wild and what is not, Safaris these days appear to be glorified wildife country parks with feeding areas etc..
                  Canon 1DX, 50D, EF500 F4.0 L, EF100-400 f/4.5-5.6L I , EF100-400 f/4.5-5.6L II, EF70-200 f/2.8L II, EF180 f3.5L Macro, EF 24-105 f/4L, EF17-40 f/4L, EF2.0X III, EF1.4X III, 430EX II, MR-14EX...

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                    #24
                    Re: Wild or Captive, does it matter?

                    Let me take this a step further;If a street performer strikes a pose when he/she sees a telephoto lens,is the resulting shot less worthy and a'lie'because they posed?

                    Are some of my macaw shots also not worthy because I gave the bird a peanut first to get a more interesting shot?Is a shot of a steam loco less worthy if the driver decides to put on a show for the cameras by venting steam?

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