Photographers rights in public places

[hotkeez]

This article will be of interest to all photographers from beginners to pro's.

http://www.sirimo.co.uk/2008/03/14/photography-in-public-areas/

[carregwen]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

It's a very good document, and I've been carrying it around for some time. This recent Home Office (UK) circular relating to counter-terrorism and photography is also very useful. It was sent by The HO to all Chief Police Officers and attempts to clarify the rights of photographers. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-u...2009/012-2009/

I think you should point out that all of this only relates to the UK. In other countries things can be quite different

[hotkeez]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

In the States the photographer has got more freedom, they even seem to have the right to photograph anyone walking down the street without having to justify themselves to anyone.

[Bob Everick]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

It's a very good document, and I've been carrying it around for some time. This recent Home Office (UK) circular relating to counter-terrorism and photography is also very useful. It was sent by The HO to all Chief Police Officers and attempts to clarify the rights of photographers. http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/about-u...2009/012-2009/

I think you should point out that all of this only relates to the UK. In other countries things can be quite different

In my experience the police aren't a problem. The main issue I had with one officer was in central London a couple of years ago when one over-interested 'plod' wouldn't stop asking about the camera and "whether he should get a digital SLR".

I perceive that there's more of a problem with the 'braided hat' brigade (ie quazi official staff such as security guards and the like) who make up the rules as they go along. In the last year I've had a security guard come out of a building and stop me taking photos in Leeds even though I wasn't taking photo's of the building he clearly thought he owned, a security guard who told me that I couldn't take my camera, never mind use it, into a shopping centre in Manchester and a railway official who tried to stop me taking photos at the line-side. He said I was treapassing even though I was quite clearly on a public footpath.

Bob

[carregwen]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

In my experience the police aren't a problem. The main issue I had with one officer was in central London a couple of years ago when one over-interested 'plod' wouldn't stop asking about the camera and "whether he should get a digital SLR".

Agree. It's not so much proper police officers but PCSOs (Police Community Support Officers) who quite often just don't understand the law. But they do come under local Chief Police Officers, which was probably one of the things that prompted the HO circular, I guess.

In the last year I've had a security guard come out of a building and stop me taking photos in Leeds even though I wasn't taking photo's of the building he clearly thought he owned

There's nothing to stop you taking a shot of his building if you are standing in a public space.

... a security guard who told me that I couldn't take my camera, never mind use it, into a shopping centre in Manchester

The owners of private property can make conditions about people visiting the property, but it begs the question how a branch of Jessops that is in a shopping-mall would ever sell any cameras. How would they get them into the shop, and how would you get them out to take home?

and a railway official who tried to stop me taking photos at the line-side. He said I was treapassing even though I was quite clearly on a public footpath.

Rubbish! (him, not you) You are either on public land or private. There is no middle ground. It's black and white.

[Cliff]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

Thing is like everything there are rules to be obeyed but it's the interpretation of the official in question of said rules at the time that we have to deal with.

I was on a lowlight course in London a while back and we setup tripods opposite the House of Parliament. PCO came along and was kicking up a stink about doing this and did we have a license as we were professionals - fat chance LOL.

They didn't care about all the tourists around us taking shots with their point and clicks (some of which were probably better than some of the attendees cameras - mine included). Oh no.

All officials see is big camera + tripod = pro making money or someone we can make money out of. Not someone trying to learn and not breaking the law.

Anyway I think they worked it out in the end I just let them get on with it and took my pics :-)

[carregwen]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

This video is very informative, and shows a classic encounter with PCSOs. It also goes over many of the key issues. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKl2sEN4yNM

And there's nothing like a bit of good old student fun...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iemr1...rom=PL&index=5

[monobrow]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImC2orpcA4I

[carregwen]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImC2orpcA4I

I see the header title on that video is "Police harrass man filming on his own door step and get intellectually obliterated"

That wouldn't be too difficult with those two Muppets would it? How can these people do their own job when they completely lack understanding of basic UK law? Are they trained?

[monobrow]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

that's what annoys me the most. they were expecting him to be submissive and do what he was told without any grounds for breaking the law. Whilst I agree they were unsure, should they really be making a scene without a water tight case?

Personally, i've not had any problems with the police, SO FAR. I've been asked by a policeman (not PCSO) what I was photographing being generally interested and when I said, he actually helped me get to a vantage point.

This made me laugh...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixTS7QdkFbs

[carregwen]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

This made me laugh...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixTS7QdkFbs

LMAO! They do have a knack of getting to the heart of the matter, don't they? Is this turning into the anti-PCSO thread? More.

[moulton999]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

Hi

I keep a copy of this document with me. I've only had to get it out twice and both times I was left alone once it had been read.

http://www.met.police.uk/about/photography.htm

[palladin]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

Hi all,
Thought you would like to know there is an article on this subject in todays Independent (05/12/09) newspaper.

https://www.independent.co.uk

[Ems]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

This might be of interest as well

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8384972.stm

[briansquibb]

Re: Photographers rights in public places

The link to the Independant article:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...s-1834626.html

An excerpt from the article

Chief Constable Andy Trotter, chairman of Acpo's media advisory group, took the decision to send the warning after growing criticism of the police's treatment of photographers.

Writing in today's Independent, he says: "Everyone... has a right to take photographs and film in public places. Taking photographs... is not normally cause for suspicion and there are no powers prohibiting the taking of photographs, film or digital images in a public place."

He added: "We need to make sure that our officers and Police Community Support Officers [PCSOs] are not unnecessarily targeting photographers just because they are going about their business. The last thing in the world we want to do is give photographers a hard time or alienate the public. We need the public to help us.

"Photographers should be left alone to get on with what they are doing. If an officer is suspicious of them for some reason they can just go up to them and have a chat with them – use old-fashioned policing skills to be frank – rather than using these powers, which we don't want to over-use at all."

Section 44 of the Terrorism Act allows the police to stop and search anyone they want, without need for suspicion, in a designated area. The exact locations of many of these areas are kept secret from the public, but are thought to include every railway station in and well-known tourist landmarks thought to be at risk of terrorist attacks.

Many photographers have complained that officers are stopping them in the mistaken belief that the legislation prohibits photographs in those areas. Forces who use Section 44, most commonly London's Metropolitan Police, have repeatedly briefed and guided frontline officers on how to use the powers without offending the public.

But privately senior officers are "exasperated, depressed and embarrassed" by the actions of junior officers and, particularly, PCSOs who routinely misuse the legislation. One source said that an "internal urban myth" had built up around police officers who believe that photography in Section 44 areas is not allowed.

The aberrations have resulted in nearly 100 complaints to the police watchdog. Since April 2008 every complaint made by a member of the public about the use of Section 44 powers, unlike other complaints, must be forwarded to the Independent Police Complaints Commission. In the past 18 months there have been 94 complaints. Eight of these specifically mentioned the fact that the issue arose around photography. Acpo's communiqué has been welcomed by rank-and-file police officers and photographers alike.