How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

[adareimages]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

I recently had several rejected for 'technical quality' even though I've posted them on this site and been praised for them, and printed them to 18"x12" and they are really sharp and properly exposed.

Brian, if you're referring to Alamy QC (quality control) here, I have to say that you're probably wrong.

Now, make no mistake, I am no advocate of the QC process at Alamy and I had a batch of 22 images fail this morning, because one of them was deemed to have the dreaded SoLD reason for failure (Soft or Lacking Definition). When I looked at it again - it certainly was unsharp, and by that I don't mean that is was not sharpened - but that it was slightly out of focus in an important part of the image area.There is a general consensus of opinion on the Alamy forum that QC almost always get it right.They have laid down a criteria of 24 reasons why your images may fail their quality inspections and hardly anyone (and they have over 20 million images online) has been able to say with any certainty that they made any error when deciding on whether an image has failed the criteria.

The main point with Alamy is that they are not an edited library. They don't care what's in your photograph. They don't care if it's a good photograph. They only care that you meet the technical criteria.

To date, I have just over 3700 images on Alamy and up until this morning I had over 30 batches pass QC in a row with no problem. And I can honestly say that they got it right.

As to the numbers game you mentioned; it is a long slog to get a good number of images online. But, I started selling with about 1000 images uploaded and I reckon that with 5000 strong (and different) images, anyone could make regular sales. And that doesn't take as long as you might think, with a bit of commitment behind it. The other key factors are making sure that Alamy isn't already swamped with the same type of images that you're sending them AND (this is very important) THEY HAVE TO BE IMAGES THAT BUYERS WANT.

I doubt that wedding shots and the ones you're taking for dog breeders will sell well via Alamy - but I have sold images of people talking to wedding planners at wedding fayres and people showing dogs at agricultural shows. Those are more like the sort of images that magazines and books will be looking for.

So, my advice is: make a commitment to get a good number of images sent in regularly; check and then double check for technical quality (read the fail criteria guidelines and check at 100% magnification in Photoshop) and take the type of photos that buyers want - look in magazines and books for ideas.

Hope that helps.

Stephen

[@imagesBV]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

Stephen,
thanks - that does help; to put things in perspective I have only uploaded 47 images, had 17 accepted and sold 8 in 12 months. As enthusiastic as I am my photography is limited to holidays, weekends and business travel. You could say commitment to selling images is an issue on my part. But its off-putting when you receive a glib reason for rejection - which is a common problem stated on many forums. And for the considerable effort I've earned less than £10 - perhaps some would say that I've hardly made an effort at all based on my numbers. You make a good point regarding images they want - they are a business after all.
The library that I've used is not the one you mention - perhaps I should try them too.
From this I've learnt that I should not be put off by the rejections. I'll stick with the library and keep uploading.
Thanks again.

[adareimages]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

I have only uploaded 47 images, had 17 accepted and sold 8 in 12 months.

That is actually an excellent return on such a small amount of images for sale.

And for the considerable effort I've earned less than £10 - perhaps some would say that I've hardly made an effort at all based on my numbers.

My guess is that you've been supplying "microstock" agencies? Most professional photographers keep well away from them, as they pay very little per image and are bringing down the value of stock imagery generally, and are going a long way to ruining the business.

My best sale (for a single image) is $570 and I have sold several images more than once for $300 or so each time. But, I would guess that that the average sale on Alamy is around $50 - $100 per image (perhaps less if you're part of the "newspaper scheme".) One person I know recently sold a single image on Alamy for $8000 and the best sale ever is for $27000 for one image. But those massive figures are rare - but even $50 per image (and that's licensed, not "sold", so you can use it again) will make you feel that your efforts are worthwhile.

Stephen

[@imagesBV]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

Thanks again Stephen.
I have just looked at Alamy and it looks interesting.
It says uncompressed files of 24MB minimum - most of my RAW files from my Canon 50D are 19 to 23MB, do I need to upsize these?
Sorry for the question....I'm imposing now.
best regards
Brian

[colin C]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

Save them as Tiffs Brian. They will be big enough.

Colin

[EOS_Jim]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

Thanks again Stephen.
I have just looked at Alamy and it looks interesting.
It says uncompressed files of 24MB minimum - most of my RAW files from my Canon 50D are 19 to 23MB, do I need to upsize these?
Sorry for the question....I'm imposing now.
best regards
Brian

RAW format is actually a compressed format Brian so that is normal. An uncompressed tif will be much bigger.

[adareimages]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

Save them as Tiffs Brian. They will be big enough.

Saving a file as a tiff won't increase it's size Colin.

Alamy are interested in the uncompressed file size (technically known as its resolution). If the uncompressed file size is less than 24MB - and Brian says that his are between 19MB and 23MB then they definitely need to be increased, whether they are tiffs or not.

The easiest way to check is to open the file in Photoshop and look at the bottom left hand corner of the image window. This will show the file resolution - the uncompressed file size. Then, if it's less than 24MB, open "image size" (under the "image" menu) and in the top dialogue window choose "percent". Change this number to the amount needed to increase the file size to what you need. So, if your original file size is 20MB, you will need to add 20% - so change the percent amount from 100 to 120. Set "bicubic smoother" as the interpolation method, in the dialogue window lower down. This allows for a smooth upsizing - and don;t do it in steps as some people recommend.

Some people convert from RAW to Tiff to do this (this is where Colin is getting confused I think) but if you're starting with a JPG file, there's really no point. Just re-size the file and then "save as" (with a new file name). You'll notice that the saved JPG file is much less than 24MB - probably between 4MB and 7MB. This is the compressed file size. Tiffs are usually much bigger, because they are close to the image resolution size (or they can be smaller) if you use the LZW lossless compressed tiff format.

Confused? You will be!

Stephen

p.s. I should have said that Alamy only accept JPG's these days. So saving the file as a tiff wouldn't work anyway (even if it did increase the resolution - which it doesn't). Once the file has been re-sized, whether in tiff or JPG format, it then needs to be re-saved as a JPG (a compressed image format) to send to Alamy. The size of the JPG will usually be about 4MB - 7MB depending on the native resolution and the content (believe or not) of the photograph itself.

[Trevoreast]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

Confused? You will be!

I’m not confused but I know there is much confusing chat on this subject.

This rule/ spec is primarily to stop people sending pics that have been cropped extensively.

A 10mp eos camera can produce (on average) a 50mb to 60 tiff from a raw file.
If you edit your 50-60mb tiff and save it as a jpeg it will roughly 4-5 mb. The jpg is what most stock agencies want. Images packed full of vibrant colours tend to result in bigger files sizes. Don't tell anyone,,,,, but it really is that simple :-)))

It follows if you have a 21 mp camera you have more leeway when it comes to cropping.
So relax – don’t worry – always try to frame your shots up properly in the camera, whatever camera you have. For those who shoot in jpg, try to shoot for near zero editing, and send your untouched, perfect jpg, you don't even have to give this "seemingly complex issue" a second thought

Hope this helps.
Trev

[EOS_Jim]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

Saving a file as a tif won't increase it's size Colin.

It may not change the resolution but that is not what Colin referred to. You will increase the size of the file as the RAW is already compressed as I notted above. Saving it as an uncompressed tif will increase the size of the file (in Mb) - not the resolution of the file which is a whole different thing.

Alamy are interested in the uncompressed file size (technically known as its resolution). If the uncompressed file size is less than 24MB - and Brian says that his are between 19MB and 23MB then they definitely need to be increased, whether they are tiffs or not.

Brian says RAW files are between that range - A RAW as I say is a compressed format. Resolution does not mean uncompressed. Resolution sets basically how large an image you can produce. Compressed or uncvompressed makes no difference to that. You can have a tif both compresed and uncompressed with the same resolution but different file sizes.

The easiest way to check is to open the file in Photoshop and look at the bottom left hand corner of the image window. This will show the file resolution - the uncompressed file size. Then, if it's less than 24MB, open "image size" (under the "image" menu) and in the top dialogue window choose "percent". Change this number to the amount needed to increase the file size to what you need. So, if your original file size is 20MB, you will need to add 20% - so change the percent amount from 100 to 120. Set "bicubic smoother" as the interpolation method, in the dialogue window lower down. This allows for a smooth upsizing - and don;t do it in steps as some people recommend.

I agree although you can set up photoshop to show different things in the bottom left area so depends how it's set up.

Some people convert from RAW to Tiff to do this (this is where Colin is getting confused I think) but if you're starting with a JPG file, there's really no point. Just re-size the file and then "save as" (with a new file name). You'll notice that the saved JPG file is much less than 24MB - probably between 4MB and 7MB. This is the compressed file size. Tiffs are usually much bigger, because they are close to the image resolution size (or they can be smaller) if you use the LZW lossless compressed tiff format.

Can you confirm what you mean by "image resolution size" Stephen?

Image resolution to me is all about the number of pixels - Image size though and file size are different although related.

To get the uncompressed size of a file you multiply the pixel resolution by 3 so an uncompressed Canon 5DII file should be around 63Mb (21Mp x 3 (RGB data per pixel)

http://www.scantips.com/basics1d.html

[EOS_Jim]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

I’m not confused but I know there is much confusing chat on this subject.

This rule/ spec is primarily to stop people sending pics that have been cropped extensively.

A 10mp eos camera can produce (on average) a 50mb to 60 tiff from a raw file.
If you edit your 50-60mb tiff and save it as a jpeg it will roughly 4-5 mb. The jpg is what most stock agencies want. Images packed full of vibrant colours tend to result in bigger files sizes. Don't tell anyone,,,,, but it really is that simple :-)))

It follows if you have a 21 mp camera you have more leeway when it comes to cropping.
So relax – don’t worry – always try to frame your shots up properly in the camera, whatever camera you have. For those who shoot in jpg, try to shoot for near zero editing, and send your untouched, perfect jpg, you don't even have to give this "seemingly complex issue" a second thought

Hope this helps.
Trev

Yes Trevor you're right although a 10Mp camera uncompressed file should be closer to 30Mb.

Doesn't matter that you shoot jpg as the uncompressed size would still be 30Mb (or in the 5DII 63Mb). The colour data in the image of a compresed file will mean the file size can differ a lot (as in the case of the RAW file changes) or in the case of jpg files. But an uncompressed file size will be consistent.

File size isnt everything though as it's the quality of the pixels that are important.

[adareimages]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

You will increase the size of the file as the RAW is already compressed as I notted above. Saving it as an uncompressed tif will increase the size of the file (in Mb) - not the resolution of the file which is a whole different thing.

You won't change the native resolution by changing the file format. If it's not 24MB it never will be until you interpolate it.

A RAW as I say is a compressed format.

No it isn't. There are two main types of compressed, processed image files JPG and tiff.LZW

I agree although you can set up photoshop to show different things in the bottom left area so depends how it's set up.

The native resolution (uncompressed file size) shows in the bottom left corner of the image window.

Can you confirm what you mean by "image resolution size" Stephen?

See above.

Stephen

[EOS_Jim]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

You won't change the native resolution by changing the file format. If it's not 24MB it never will be until you interpolate it.

I'm not talking about changing the native resolution. You will increase the file size (measured in Mb) not the resolution (measured in Mp). As I say the RAW image IS compressed (see links below) Very simple to check. Take a raw image and look at the file size on the PC (say 20Mb for a 5DII file) now export as a Tif (no compression) - Look at the size now!

There are two main types of compressed, processed image files JPG and tiff.LZW

You mention correctly the two main types of "processed" compression. But we are talking about unprocessed images and Canon RAW files ARE indeed (lossless) compressed image files. I thought it was a well known fact and is posted also on the Canon web site - http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/...compression.do

Scroll down to the "Lossless and lossy compression/Canon RAW format" section.
"Lossless compression cannot achieve the file size reductions offered by JPEG compression, but Canon RAW format files can often be saved at a quarter of the size of an uncompressed file. (The actual file size is affected by the subject and the ISO speed.)"

Just as a point of interest, if the files were not compressed how can they all be different sizes? They are different because of the compression. Even ISO changes the file sizes as ISO noise doesn't compress well (much more random). If there was no compression, every file would be the same size (apart from things like sRAW which reduce resolution too).

The native resolution (uncompressed file size) shows in the bottom left corner of the image window.

The native resolution is not the same as the file size (for the reasons above) - although you can show that information (I think if you right click on that area you can select what data you want to be shown) - file size or image resolution or any of a a few other bits of image infomation.

Image resolution relates purely to the number of pixels in the image. The uncompressed file size will be 3x that number (talking 8bit files here). A 16 bit file is larger.

Regards
Jim

[Trevoreast]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

Yes I’m talking about 16 bit Jim, that’s how I end up larger files, you’re right the 40D will make circa 30 mb 8bit tiffs.
Ultimately I have to convert my 16bit tiff to 8 bit to enable conversion to a jpg

My main point is that is one of the simplest points in their submission guidelines to get one’s head around, and yet there always seems to be much confusing debate. I wouldn’t be surprised if all confusing debate has actually put people off submitting.

Best we get the details from the horse’s mouth by looking at the submission guidelines, if anyone still has a problem/question with file sizes they only have to ask .

http://www.alamy.com/contributor/help/prepare-images.asp

Trev

[adareimages]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

I'm not talking about changing the native resolution. You will increase the file size (measured in Mb) not the resolution (measured in Mp). As I say the RAW image IS compressed (see links below) Very simple to check. Take a raw image and look at the file size on the PC (say 20Mb for a 5DII file) now export as a Tif (no compression) - Look at the size now!



You mention correctly the two main types of "processed" compression. But we are talking about unprocessed images and Canon RAW files ARE indeed (lossless) compressed image files. I thought it was a well known fact and is posted also on the Canon web site - http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/...compression.do

Scroll down to the "Lossless and lossy compression/Canon RAW format" section.
"Lossless compression cannot achieve the file size reductions offered by JPEG compression, but Canon RAW format files can often be saved at a quarter of the size of an uncompressed file. (The actual file size is affected by the subject and the ISO speed.)"

Just as a point of interest, if the files were not compressed how can they all be different sizes? They are different because of the compression. Even ISO changes the file sizes as ISO noise doesn't compress well (much more random). If there was no compression, every file would be the same size (apart from things like sRAW which reduce resolution too).



The native resolution is not the same as the file size (for the reasons above) - although you can show that information (I think if you right click on that area you can select what data you want to be shown) - file size or image resolution or any of a a few other bits of image infomation.

Image resolution relates purely to the number of pixels in the image. The uncompressed file size will be 3x that number (talking 8bit files here). A 16 bit file is larger.

Regards
Jim

Hi Jim

I'm not sure why you choose to pick an argument - I had got the idea that this was a particularly friendly forum. I can assure you that my knowledge of digital imaging is fairly sound (I won the 2007 Guru award from the American National Association of Photoshop Professionals) amongst other things - and digital photography is my profession.

I was genuinely trying to be helpful here - But I'm fair too busy to get involved in disagreements for no good reason, so I'll leave you to your forum.

Stephen

[Trevoreast]

Re: How Do You Do It and Does It Work?

I think everyone's trying to be helpful Stephen, if we were all sitting in a pub chatting face to face about this, I'm sure we'd all be laughing and joking, within a couple of minutes.
We don't have the benefit of facial expressions (except smileys) and body language on forums.

It's your round by the way, mine's a pint of stout LOL

Trev