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    Downhill mountain biking

    Hi all

    First time poster, so please tell me if this is the wrong etiquette for this section.

    I went to a grass roots downhill mountain biking venue yesterday and was disappointed with the number of keepers I got.

    I was using an R5 with AF>people>eye detect, and on tab 3 of the AF menu, I selected Servo AF scenario 3, which had -2 tracking sensitivity (i.e. locked on) and +2 accel./decel. tracking.

    I used a mixture of shooting styles, and had the most direct hits on riders' heads when they were riding towards me rather than across my frame. (I realise that subjects travelling perpendicular to the frame are going to be very hard to capture.) I was moving the camera a fair bit while shooting and tried some panning shots. I was shooting in high speed + mode.

    Can someone give me some tips on what I need to change in my settings and/or shooting technique to increase the number of keepers please.

    The photos are here by the way if anyone wishes to see the ones I was less disappointed with - bear in mind I came away with these 84 out of nearly 1,900 photos.

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/139953...57719919533060

    Thanks very much, and all the best everyone.

    Regards

    CF

    #2
    Looks interesting, but the pictures are a bit small. I would be inclined to pick out one or two that you consider are OK and post them on the Forum via Flickr.
    I admire your stamina in sitting and selecting 84 shots out of 1900 - something I could not do.
    Last edited by Trev B; 19-09-2021, 08:54.
    Trev

    Equipment - According to the wife more than a Camera Shop got

    Flickr:
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/trevb2639/

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by flinnyc View Post

      I was using an R5 with AF>people>eye detect, and on tab 3 of the AF menu, I selected Servo AF scenario 3, which had -2 tracking sensitivity (i.e. locked on) and +2 accel./decel. tracking.

      I used a mixture of shooting styles, and had the most direct hits on riders' heads when they were riding towards me rather than across my frame. (I realise that subjects travelling perpendicular to the frame are going to be very hard to capture.) I was moving the camera a fair bit while shooting and tried some panning shots. I was shooting in high speed + mode.
      WOW, is this what photography has come to!

      I'm definately no expert and I don't know what half of those settings do but, as your first setting is eye detect then I feel you've got to fill the frame more with your subject.
      There's a couple in there where you have done this and instantly you are drawn to the persons eyes and then the concentration on their face. Which I think is what you were after

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks both. Trev B - I love your photos on Flickr, first of all!

        It seems that I need to fill the frame with the subject based on DEG5Y's feedback, and if I have interpreted Trev B's comment that the "pictures are a bit small" correctly.

        I have to say that practising isn't really a chore, so I'm looking forward to my next attempt already!

        Cheers

        Comment


          #5
          You have a great camera and a lot of the shots in your flickr album are more than acceptable, some are pretty good so don’t be disappointed with 84 keepers !

          My comments FWIW

          1.. You don’t need H+ for this sport, H is more than enough and stops you taking 1900 shots to sift through

          2. What lens did you use? I think the ones that work best are where the biker is mid air and you can see the baseline, but you don’t need all the extra foliage. Get in closer to see the action. I really liked your shot 30A0196 but I’ve cropped to show you where the interest lies – about 30% of your image


          biker-2.jpg
          3. Don’t bother with rear shots. No-one is interested when you can’t see the face. Brutal but true

          4. AF Case 1 or Auto would serve you just as well. Case 3 is more for when you are tracking the front runner in a race and he gets overtaken. Here you have a clear view of the rider and he is travelling along a predictable(ish) path at a manageable speed

          5. If you give us an idea of what settings you used, we can comment further

          Good stuff, thanks for sharing these


          Canon EOS R6, Canon 5d mk iv plus the usual suspects ......

          https://www.flickr.com/photos/bo_fo_to

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks very much lunarbo. Noted on drive speed, and thanks for the feedback on that shot. Even though I had a 70-200 with me, I was actually enjoying using a 15-35mm for that series of shots, and at 15mm. I was quite liking the sense of how much air these guys were getting, but as per the other feedback, I guess this perspective removes the human engagement of seeing faces/eyes.

            Part of the reason I had put away the zoom by this point was that whilst it would have got me closer to the riders' faces, I had lost confidence that it would focus quickly enough as they hurtled through a much smaller subject area. I will go back and practice this. The shot you chose was at f/9, 1/400th and ISO 500. Since coming back a bit deflated, I read a few articles that are suggesting I should be at >1,000th for this sport.

            I have read the manual again on tracking cases and had come to the same view as you suggested, and indeed was even thinking that setting both sensitivity dials to -2 could work - there are rarely two riders in view, and as you say their trajectory and speed are predictable.

            Thanks again, and greatly appreciated.
            Last edited by flinnyc; 19-09-2021, 11:36.

            Comment


              #7
              I would think the 70-200 would be ideal for the purpose.

              I agree that you need a shutter speed of 1/1000 and you would lose nothing by shooting in TV mode of least 1/1500. We know the R5 can cope brilliantly with low light but it was a sunny day so your ISO could have stayed low no matter what f stop you used. My experience with the R6 is that I don't think twice at anything below 6400 ISO, noise will not be a factor. So no need to be stingy with the shutter speed !

              I am not yet sure about eye detection. It's great on a large, slow moving animal or in nailing portrait shots. But I wonder about using it on fast moving athletes. I tried it myself at an amateur rugby match where I stood on the rails with the R6/100-400 L. I just couldn't get a grip on things. I eventually moved to zone AF and focused on the face or ball or torso depending on what came up. Felt more confident and got some shots I was pleased with.

              But I definitely need to practice as seeing the game with the lens glued to my face is totally different than watching the game from the stands or on TV

              So I think you can come away from your first attempt with lots of positives and see if it gets better the next time with a few changes
              Canon EOS R6, Canon 5d mk iv plus the usual suspects ......

              https://www.flickr.com/photos/bo_fo_to

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks again lunarbo.

                I did think there was a gag on the way when you mentioned slow moving animals and then an amateur rugby match...

                The MTB park is only half an hour away and it's good fun wandering around and climbing up to the top of the course, so by no means a hardship for me to go back and experiment further.

                A lot of the riders ask where they can see shots of them afterwards, so I hope I can at least please a few of them by providing new profile pics etc.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Some excellent action shots there, I would echo Trev and suggest you post your images via Flickr though.
                  7D, 400D, EF-S 15-85 f3.5/5.6, EF 100 f2.8 USM macro, Sigma 10-20 f4/5.6, Sigma 70-300 f4/5.6 APO, Sigma 50 f1.4, EF 28-90, EF 90-300, Sigma 150-600C, 430 EXll, Yongnuo 568 EX ll, Yongnuo Triggers, Yongnuo YN14-EX Ring Flash

                  Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/94610707@N05/

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks Bill53.

                    I am new to all this - can you let me know what you mean about posting my images via Flickr please? There was a link in my original post to the Flickr album which it looks like you've had a look at (thanks), so is there something else I should be doing to get my photos "out there"?

                    Thanks

                    CF

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Hi Flinny Perhaps this will help, its a copy of a post I put on another Thread some time ago

                      1.Open flickr
                      2. Double click on black arrow in cloud top right hand of screen
                      3. This will open a new page – click on blue window – ‘choose photos & Videos Upload’
                      4. Choose the picture you want to upload
                      5. Click blue upload panel top right of screen
                      6. Picture now uploaded to Flickr
                      7. Click on picture to open new window
                      8. Click on the upload arrow (the one pointing right) bottom right of screen
                      9. This will bring up the BBcode
                      10. Copy this code.
                      11. Open the EOS Forum
                      12. Paste the BB Code in the thread where you want to display your picture

                      Trev
                      Trev

                      Equipment - According to the wife more than a Camera Shop got

                      Flickr:
                      https://www.flickr.com/photos/trevb2639/

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Thanks again Trev.

                        This is the result (I was able to skip steps 1 to 6 as my photos had already been uploaded). I would never have found that out, so thanks for the tip.

                        _30A9551 by C F, on Flickr

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by flinnyc View Post
                          Thanks again Trev.

                          This is the result (I was able to skip steps 1 to 6 as my photos had already been uploaded). I would never have found that out, so thanks for the tip.

                          _30A9551 by C F, on Flickr
                          You got it
                          Trev

                          Equipment - According to the wife more than a Camera Shop got

                          Flickr:
                          https://www.flickr.com/photos/trevb2639/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I would add that tracking sensitivity should be higher to track across the frame…accel/decel tracks the subject changing speed towards or away from you….at least that’s how I read it. agree no need for electronic shutter…full mechanical is fast enough. You don’t need eye focus at f9 and 15mm …the dof will be adequate if focussed on any part of the subject….probably true if you’d used the 70-200 too unless you were fully zoomed I like your shots by the way…great work!
                            Brian Vickers LRPS

                            brianvickersphotography.com

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Thanks @imagesBV - I appreciate the technical and results feedback!

                              Comment

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