Classic 3/4 shots of trains - where to focus??

[Chris J]

Such as this - a West Coast Railways Class 47 heading north through Leamington Spa with its support coach.



Where is best to focus? Being quite long things trains need a good d.o.f., but movement means a fairly high shutter speed with corresponding effect on aperture. So, what's the best place to focus, and would it be any different if the train wasn't moving??
This was 20D + 24-105L, ISO 200, 1/200 at f8. Hasn't got sharp focus on the front nor back.
Interested in any advice.
Cheers, Chris.

[Manipulator]

Re: Classic 3/4 shots of trains - where to focus??

Chris,
I like the composition. You have a reasonable amount of space in front of the loco to move into and have the benefit of getting the full train in view. Of course the sky could do with a little boosting but the station roof helps to limit this. As regards your question, for me the required sharp point would be the loco number which in this case would probably give a good rendition of the 'face'. One would expect the image to go gradually out of focus along the train - indeed this would encourage the viewers eye to the front of the loco where the 'personality' is located. Possibly the optimal point would be the vertical corner between side and face at about the number level.
In this image I think the snow plough / cow-catcher (depending on which side of the atlantic you live) is a bit of a mess 'defacing' one of the classes which has been the major motive power for freight/ and passenger in past decades.
Thanks for sharing
Gerald
PS notice your text has gone wrong for the same reason as mine did in the parallel thread 'Tornado' i.e. the width of your image is 1024 px which is too large (thanks for explanation to carragwen). I have an outstanding query to admin regarding the maximum this forum will support.

[holmbridge]

Re: Classic 3/4 shots of trains - where to focus??

You don't indicate what focal length this is actually taken at but I would guess around 50mm. Any wider distorts the perpective to the point it looks unacceptable and this is not showing that problem.

DoF at 50mm on a cropped sensor at F8 with a subject distance of 20 m
is 9m to infinity so not sure what the issue is other than the engine has moved?

Personally I would focus on the "face" ...on a steam engine the number and shed plate on the front smoke box door must be sharp.

Andy

[Chris J]

Re: Classic 3/4 shots of trains - where to focus??

Thanks, both, for your interesting replies. Was back at Leamington the other day and, having thought about it, tried a few different approaches.

This is a Wrexham and Shropshire unit being propelled north by its Class 67. Was interested in the whole thing, so focused on the name plate region. Going by the dof rule of "1/3 in front and 2/3 behind I thought it would give what I was looking for -



50D + 24-105 set at 73mm, ISO 200, 1/400, f7. Looking again at this I think a slight to crop to reduce the sky and get rid of the lamp in the top right is needed.

And this is a Freightliner 66 that was heading south hauling empty container flats - not the most interesting things, so I wanted just the loco. So, focused on its flat front (and then cropped to get this view) -



Same gear, set at 75mm, ISO 400, 1/160, f7.

I think both give what I was looking for, supporting both your answers, and making me realise how important it is to think what you are trying to achieve before doing it.

As for the Gresley A4s - my favourites from my youth. Spent many a happy morning at Retford or Doncaster watching (and listening - that chime whistle.....) to them dashing through.

And for posting on the forum - I've referred all three shots of mine on this thread from flickr, which gives the choice of being too big - the Class 47, or too small - the Wrex and Shrops and the 66. I assume the better way to do it is to upload to the forum and let it size to 600 across, but I haven't got the expertise to easily reduce file size.

Cheers, all. Enjoy the trains.

[Manipulator]

Re: Classic 3/4 shots of trains - where to focus??

Chris J
I think you have got it here. The angles are right for the reasons you give but the top one appears much sharper on my screen. I suspect the lower one was traversing the perpendicular to your lense more rapidly than the upper (guessing by the signalling in the shot) and yet you used a slower shutter for the lower. In the lower, the running gear looks ok but since the face of the loco has more text on it a faster shutter is more critical. If leamington is a convenient location for you I would try a few experiments - you know your spot, the track is in the same place and it is likely that there is a set speed for trains of this type. It would then be down to you to estimate these factors in a different location. For me getting a sharp face on the loco is more important than dof so I would experiment with shutter speed and let the weather determine your aperture. On this count I much prefer the top image.
Gerald

[Chris J]

Re: Classic 3/4 shots of trains - where to focus??

Thanks, Manip., for the advice.

As I was experimenting I tried to keep the aperture and focal length constant. Both trains were moving at a similar speed - not too fast, but 1/160 may have been too low for shutter speed. Sky didn't help - fast moving clouds kept covering the sun.....

Will carry on experimenting, and will give speed greater priority next time. Actually that might not be too much of a problem as next time may be around the marshalling yards at Port Talbot (I see you come from S. Wales) and the Corus shunters aren't the fastest of things.

Cheers, chris.

[Bob Everick]

Re: Classic 3/4 shots of trains - where to focus??

It does depend on the shot but I tend to focus on the front of the train - front buffer beam or smokebox door and use one of two techniques:

1) Manually pre-focus on a spot on the track and snap as the front of the train passes that point. This is perhaps easier when using an aperture of f5.6 and upwards (ie greater depth of field). Benefit: more likley to get an in-focus shot. Downside: Timing is important as the front of the train can pass out of the in-focus area;
2) Select the appropriate focussing point (ie widest right/left on the 'diamond') and use "AI servo" to track the focussing point. Benefit: You can get multiple shots at the same location. Downside: Canon's AF isn't good enough to be reliable and the camera can sometimes 'lock on' to an element of the background.

I also agree with Chris's comment of getting the front of the train towwards the front 3rd of the in-focus area. Shooting from anything other than at 90 degrees from the track you're never going to get 300 yards of train in focus and, even if you did, no-one would notice the detail in the last carriage!

Bob

[Manipulator]

Re: Classic 3/4 shots of trains - where to focus??

Thanks, Manip., for the advice.

.... may be around the marshalling yards at Port Talbot ...

Cheers, chris.

C
Hope you are able to share a sample in due course.
G