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**EOS_Jim** · 14-04-2010, 02:15

Re: Components of Adobe

For the photographer, Photoshop & Lightroom is all you need.

Photoshop Extended does not include any other software as such but is geared towards 3D use of photoshop - If you don't use that plain old Ps will be more than enough. And what a programme it looks!!! There are a whole new host of features. One that will certainly interest you from that image you posted last week would be content aware fill - delete that signe and Ps will render your scene with the blockwork redrawn! And also HDR Pro should interest you - have a look at the videos on the Adobe site.

Lightroom is a close relation to bridge and whilst you can do a lot of stuff in bridge, Lr is just slicker, quicker and easier to use. It is an image catalogue - you can import and edit very quickly (way faster than Bridge) but it's down to how you use them.

THe best thing to do is look on the Adobe site and click the application icons and you can watch what they do. Bare in mind that Lr3 is due out soon too..... I want CS5 ;)

**colin C** · 14-04-2010, 07:57

Re: Components of Adobe

I agree with Jim and it looks like I will have to pay my "Adobe Tax" yet again. CS5 looks to be very a very useful upgrade to my current CS4 and I look forward to playing with it.

I have lightroom 2 and although it is very clever, I rarely use it. They have taken a RAW converter, added a few Photoshop bits to it and if you don't have Photoshop, it is a very useful program, but a bit long winded. I use Canon's very own (Free) DPP as my RAW converter, because it does everything I need to, it is quick and Canon regularly update it. Any shots that need further tweeking I import to CS4.

I shall stay with Canon's DPP as my Raw converter.
I won't upgrade to Lightroom 3
I will upgrade to Photoshop CS5
I don't need anything else.

Does that help?

Colin

**russelljtdyer** · 14-04-2010, 21:26

Re: Components of Adobe

Thanks for the feedback, Jim and Colin. You both seem to agree that I could drop the Extended part of my CSx package. However, I seem to have one endorsement of LightRoom and one suggesting I skip it. One of the things that I liked about Apple's Aperture was the managing of image files. With Adobe Bridge, I have little more than what I get from the operating system in the way of folders and file management. Would LightRoom give me back all that I lost by leaving Aperture in the way of image file management? I could just download the free 30-day trial copy and see how I like it. However, learning new things (or finding old things that I had with other programs) isn't quick for me with Adobe products. It might be better and I wouldn't know it for some time. If I do decide that LightRoom will be useful for me, is LightRoom 3 being released along with CS5? I didn't see it mentioned on Adobe's site.

**colin C** · 14-04-2010, 23:59

Re: Components of Adobe

Hi Russell

Lightroom is really good, but not for me and that is to do with my workflow. I want all the basics to be simple and quick and when I use lightroom, I am tempted to spend the extra time getting the very best out of the RAW file, using every whistle and flute available within lightroom. But most of my shots don't need anything more than a basic conversion so that I can decide whether to process them further and generally, that can be done more effectively in CS4.

Equally, I am not totally happy the way lightroom takes over as a photo viewer. I am used to a hierarchical folder structure and for me it works best by subject> year> place> month and if necessary, sub divided by A-Z. Lightroom wants to do things it's own logical way and that's fine if it works for you, but I find it irritating. Similarly, one of the best programs I have come across for file management is Mac's iPhoto. If you don't know anything about workflow and file management, just load you photo's into a Mac, give them a name and it does everything for you, it is brilliant. If my wife ever loaded her own photo's into a computer, she would love iPhoto, but it's no good for me, because I cannot use my folder structure.

Lightroom is generally a stand alone product, but there is often a discount if you buy them as a bundle.

Colin

**russelljtdyer** · 15-04-2010, 03:03

Re: Components of Adobe

Ah, Colin, you've worked with iPhoto, which is very similar to Aperture. Okay, so, you've worked with the Adobe and Apple image file programs. Good. Alright, here's my biggest problem with Aperture (iPhoto): files are stored in a library or an internal database. Whereas Adobe leaves the images as separate files on the file system. That makes copying and moving image files as easy as drag and drop. It also allows you to put image files into separate folders and on separate hard drives. I can't do that easily with Aperture. So, um, there was a point. Oh, right, so does LightRoom work like Aperture and move image files into one big file or database? Or is it like Bridge and just adds settings to the image files or maybe creates a separate index of those files?

**colin C** · 15-04-2010, 07:40

Re: Components of Adobe

Light room works like Aperture. So you are using a Mac, I assume?

I got over the file structure problem by putting two new folders on the hard drive: RAW and Photo's and these have a link on the desktop. Within each file I have a main file by subject, such as: Aircraft, Animals, Birds, Cars etc. Click onto any heading folder and it is subdivided into years. Click on a year and it subdivides into places. Click on the places folder and there are the individual files, in month order.

All of the files are backed up on external hard drives and at the end of each year, I archive a years files onto an archive HD, so that the Mac isn't overloaded. I generally just keep current and previous year on the computer.

Colin

**EOS_Jim** · 15-04-2010, 19:50

Re: Components of Adobe

I actually could live without Photoshop - That is how highly I rate Lightroom. My use of Ps fell dratsically when I started using Lr.

As stated it creates a catalogue and notes the location of the files and creates a database that notes the edits.

I appreciate that Colin doesn't shoot weddings and portraits But where it took be a couple of days using a raw converter like ACR and DPP, I can edt 300 images in an hour or two! It's very quick, I don't really over use it. Exposure/contrast tweaks and colour correction - batch process and that's it!

You can use ACR in a similar way but I just find Lr easier. I've never been a fan of DPP.

All very personal and it's down to how comfotrable you feel using the sioftware. I use PC so no experience with Aperture.

Jim

**russelljtdyer** · 16-04-2010, 20:53

Re: Components of Adobe

I downloaded the trial version of LightRoom 2 last night and have been working with it much of today. It works great. It has everything I missed about Aperture. So, thanks Jim for that piece of the puzzle.

Now that I've been using it, I'd like to give feedback regarding one concern I had mentioned about the handling of files. When importing image files into LightRoom, you're asked if you want to leave the images files where they are located or to copy them. I chose to leave them where I put them on an external hard drive. So, importing was quick and I still have the method I liked about Adobe or not encapsulating image files into a huge library. For new images that I will take from camera memory cards, I'll have to copy them. However, I would imagine I would use Adobe Bridge as I did before for that and then import them into LightRoom (without copying them again). Anyway, LightRoom creates a database in it's own directory which contains information on image files beyond the Exif data. It also creates a cache for previews of the image files. This, of course, allows for quicker viewing of all of the images in a folder. Basically, it does everything that Aperture did for me, but without locking up my image files or controlling their organization. I mention this here in case someone else is thinking of switching from Aperture to LightRoom later.

Now I'm wondering if I should buy LightRoom 2 or wait for LightRoom 3. Will it be out within the next 30 days? If I use the beta version, does that go beyond the 30 day trial period?

**EOS_Jim** · 17-04-2010, 02:38

Re: Components of Adobe

No bother Russell.
I actually just use Lr to import my images and copy them to the directory I choose. Copy so that you have a backup on the memory card in case of any issues. THen backup on your PC before deleting from the card.

Not sure of the Lr3 yet? There's a beta of Lr 3 available to download and is likely to end in June so I think it will be out not long after that.

**russelljtdyer** · 18-04-2010, 01:14

Re: Components of Adobe

After having spent an absurd amount of time working with LightRoom for the past few days--or has it been a week--I now remember why I asked about LightRoom and didn't just download the trial version to learn about it on my own. I've become so enthralled in the software that I now can't bear to wait for the new version. Incidentally, the beta version is not a complete version. It's only for sampling some of the new features--at least that's what Adobe's web site says. I also found that if I buy version 2 and version comes out within 30 days of the time of my purchase, I get the upgrade from 2 to 3 for free. Otherwise I have to pay for another upgrade.

My trial version will end at the middle of May. If I bought a copy of version 2, I would be betting that version 3 will come out by mid-June. As Jim points out, the new version probably won't come out until at least after the beta version ends, which at this point is June 30. I could always wait two weeks before buying version 2. However, it's the second beta edition that ends June 30. The first one came out in January and ended in April, or thereabouts. I read old postings in which people were betting on the new version being released at the end of April and then the second beta release hit delaying the target by a few more months. There could be a third beta as we approach the end of June. So, it's not a sure bet. However, I don't want to sit here all entrenched in a trial copy of LightRoom 2 that has expired, waiting for version 3 to save $100. So, I'll probably buy the upgrade twice this year.

As a side note, can you tell that I was married for over twenty years to a woman who used to abuse me for every dollar I spent, for whom I had to justify the use of funds as if I were Jimmy Stewart standing before a crowd of desperate people at the Bailey Building & Loan threatening a run on the bank? It's been seven years since I squeezed free of her and I'm still gun shy about living life. Oh, don't get me started. I'll save it for my therapist.

**EOS_Jim** · 18-04-2010, 01:56

Re: Components of Adobe

If you have the money Russell, spend it - you only live once. I'm lucky my girlfriend tells me to spend it!! I just have to hold myself back a bit :)

Lr will change the way you work. Your need for Ps will be greatly reduced.

In Lr I just started playing with the graduated filters - great for darkening skies.

**Del773** · 18-04-2010, 20:21

Re: Components of Adobe

[QUOTE=EOS_Jim;13479]
Not sure of the Lr3 yet?

I am also a Lightroom fan, I've been using it since day one!

When the Beta of Version 2 came to an end it was because version 2 had been released and to keep using it you had to upgrade or buy. So, if adobe follow the same form, Beta 3 will end when 3 is available for purchase/upgrade.

Hope this helps

**EOS_Jim** · 18-04-2010, 22:50

Re: Components of Adobe

That's a fair shout because all those with Lr3 catalogues won't be able to do anything with them!

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