Seems like the other manufacturer listens

[Martin]

So that other manufacturer has just upgraded their flagship sport/press/nature dslr body and left the pixel count at 12mp, but upped the ISO capability.....again

So Canon - we know that you don't listen, but will say it again anyway.

We are not chasing the mega pixels - we want high ISO/ low noise capability, a better dynamic range, an accurate AF system on subjects that move, and sensible fps.

Reading a number of other forums, it seems like the marketing hype around the 7D and noise was just once again exactly that.....marketing hype.

Video is nice....but not at the expense of the basic functionality I outlined above

Take a look at the competition.....but most of all please just listen and stop telling us what we NEED.

I personally responded when you asked me about the 1Dmk3 - and the second recall process - and how you could do things better - I gave you chapter and verse. You didnt even bother to respond or acknowledge.

Martin

[DenisV]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

Agree!

[eeyore]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

Reading a number of other forums, it seems like the marketing hype around the 7D and noise was just once again exactly that.....marketing hype.

George Orwell in 1984 had the term Newspeak - Here in marketing I guess he would call it Advertspeak (as I had mentioned before about the marketing language that was used in the 7D). Canon has to sell, they MUST use language which makes us want to buy! i.e. The grass is greener on the other side of the fence! This always works - think of Vista and how that was marketed and the actual result of Vista! The proof of the pudding is in the eating!!

Once again - I'll stick with the 350D, even though I have been tempted by the thought of a better camera! It seems that Canon come out with a really good model, then they must update to a 'better' model - and in the end the 'better' model is not so 'better' after all!

PS - the 7D may well be a good camera and for those who have bought it can decide - personal preference and reasons - but just to go out and buy it because it is the latest model may well require some extra thought. Here's another idiom - You get what you pay for, although these days one seems to pay a lot for ....

[Martin]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

My post isnt about a 'kicking for the 7D'. It is about not chasing mp and giving us better noise performance and dynamic range.

It is about good basic camera performance, not just a bunch of extra little toys.

Canon told us about great new high ISO performance on the 50D when they launched it. I have tried it and their hype was just 'noise'.

They said the same for the 7D, having listened to 5,000 photographers!!

Early user reports indicate that noise is as bad or worse than the 50D. I cannot verify as I have not tried it, but I now have an option available to me to do that, and I will and I will make my mind up about the 7D then, based on my own experiences.

BUT if they had listened to photographers as they claimed they would being offering something very different.

The dark side think that 12mp is enough - I tend to agree. I would far sooner see this number of mp with good noise performance and an exceptional AF performance.

As a strictly amateur who has spent (i wont say invested) significant amounts on the Canon system (after all it is a system you buy into - a dslr body can almost be thought of as a consummable now), the decision to change out a whole system is a massive one - or at least the cost is. But that is my risk of course in the prusuit of my interest

If you are a pro, then it is a business decision that you will either make stand up or not.

It seems that many pro's have made that business decision stack up

Martin

[Aston]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

BUT if they had listened to photographers as they claimed they would being offering something very different.Martin

How do you know they have not listened to other photographers?

Canon is a worldwide company and needs to produce products which meet the approval of customers in many different countries. They will be listening to feedback from photographers in Japan, the USA, India, Australia, Europe, Russia...

It would be very surprising if all these customers were in agreement about what they want to see in the next EOS camera, and even more surprising if they all agreed that the next EOS camera was just what they wanted!

As it happens, I rather like the EOS 7D. And yes, I do have one.

Simon

[DuncanH]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

Martin I absolutely agree, couldn't put it better myself.

Please Canon "we want high ISO/ low noise capability, a better dynamic range, an accurate AF system on subjects that move, and sensible fps". I would add to that the in-camera cropping feature offered by another make is what I would also like to see, as an event photographer this feature is great for display of proofs on-site but I can understand that it's not so important for others. For events I shoot jpegs about 2mb file size so the last thing I need is more pixels.

The very last thing I want to do is change camps but as you say it's a business decision for me so I'm waiting for the 1D mark 4 to decide.

[monobrow]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

couldn't agree more.

yet in the adverts, canon claim to listen to their customers.

[Pete]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

couldn't agree more.

yet in the adverts, canon claim to listen to their customers.

And Aston said they probably did, it just wasn't Martin

[monobrow]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

yeah you're right, they must have listened to their share holders. ;-)

[carregwen]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

So Canon - we know that you don't listen, but will say it again anyway.

About 5 mins before I read this I was looking at an ad in the Black+White Photography magazine for the 7D. The sales-pitch was, and I quote... "Designed by you, made by Canon" (my italics). What a load of bosh!

[Martin]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

Also seems like a satisfied dark side user isn't unhappy with a 12mp pixel count either - check out via the link on my sig

Martin

[Dave]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

Looks like it's time for Canon to follow the leader!

[vinlyn09]

Re: Seems like the other manufacturer listens

Martin said:

"My post isnt about a 'kicking for the 7D'. It is about not chasing mp and giving us better noise performance and dynamic range.

It is about good basic camera performance, not just a bunch of extra little toys.

Canon told us about great new high ISO performance on the 50D when they launched it. I have tried it and their hype was just 'noise'.

They said the same for the 7D, having listened to 5,000 photographers!!

Early user reports indicate that noise is as bad or worse than the 50D. I cannot verify as I have not tried it...

BUT if they had listened to photographers as they claimed they would being offering something very different.

The dark side think that 12mp is enough - I tend to agree. I would far sooner see this number of mp with good noise performance and an exceptional AF performance.

As a strictly amateur who has spent (i wont say invested) significant amounts on the Canon system (after all it is a system you buy into - a dslr body can almost be thought of as a consummable now), the decision to change out a whole system is a massive one - or at least the cost is..."

How do you know they have not listened to other photographers?

Canon is a worldwide company and needs to produce products which meet the approval of customers in many different countries. They will be listening to feedback from photographers in Japan, the USA, India, Australia, Europe, Russia...

It would be very surprising if all these customers were in agreement about what they want to see in the next EOS camera, and even more surprising if they all agreed that the next EOS camera was just what they wanted!

As it happens, I rather like the EOS 7D. And yes, I do have one.

I've been cautiously debating with myself about replacing my 50D with the 7D. To do so I have been reading several different forums, and I am just as undecided now as I was to begin with.

I think Martin has made some excellent points. He's absolutely correct that MPs aren't everything, although I would hope that Canon could be a leader or at least equal in that area. And, I think he's absolutely right in terms of the noise issue being paramount to many. His implication that noise is what Canon needs to work on at this juncture, over MPs, is right on target. And, I especially like his comment about the folly of giving us more "toys". My god, I can't figure out half the toys on the camera now and rarely have wanted to.

That is not to say that I disagree with you, Aston. In reading some of the more prolific forums (such as dpreview), the amount of squabbling about what is needed and how good different features are has surprised me a bit.

Thank you both for elevating the discussion.