New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

[DenisV]

Hello, all!

I have been quite an active member here several years back (in the first life of this forum) and back now - for some advice:

I am an enthusiast Canon user and have my trusty 20d serving me well for many years. But I am now thinking of changing the camera, with two objectives:
- Significantly reduce weight of the kit
- Improve high iso performance

I mainly take pics while hiking and on other trips so reducing weight is a priority – but with absolute minimum compromise on controls.

I also shoot people indoors without flash and with on-camera and off-camera flash so improved high-iso performance of today’s cameras compared to 20d is an opportunity. The new camera has to work/handle well with flash as well.

The rest of the kit in use:
50 1.4
10-22
17-85 (likely to be replaced with 15-85 at the time of updating the camera)
70-200 4IS
580ex
430ex
420ex
STE2

So, given the above I am considering what new body can I get. I had big expectations for the M system but so far the offering is a non-starter (lack of body controls, slow AF, no VF, no grip).

I look at the 100D with interest and had a good play with it yesterday, trying all my lenses and flash on it. Have been positively impressed – very light, interface/controls can actually work well despite reduced button/wheel count (so I will have to get used to not having the top display, joystick etc and use the touchscreen instead which seem fine btw), viewfinder is OK too. The grip is very small and shallow – but using with light lenses may still be ok, hold by the lens with bigger lenses also should be OK. Where it does not work is with a big flash – really wants to fall out and the fingers get tired quickly.

Other options looked at –

700d – as above + the grip is sufficiently larger so much better handling. But do not like the screen (seems flimsy) and a bit heavier of cause.

7D – a natural path from 20D but none of the weight saving!

So, any advice, given the objectives, the current kit and what I shoot?

Outside EOS system is a maybe, but only if makes sense financially and comprehensive long-term system life.

[Nathaniel]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

Have you thought about the 60D. I have one and is excellent re weight etc.

[DenisV]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

Yes, 60D is a natural candidate but would mean no downsizing so not really a solution here - only a complete alternative, like the 7D (or its successor) would be.

[antoeknee]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

EOS-M?

[Nathaniel]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

I know that the 60d is lighter than the 7D as I tried both before making my decision to buy the 60D

[DenisV]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

EOS-M?

Considered it of casue but in its current form - absolute no, due to lack of hard control buttons/wheels. If a 'proper' M body is ever released then yes very much so but it is an unknown.

[antoeknee]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

Or the 100D as its smaller/lighter

[DrJon]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

Here's some instant thoughts before I dash out...

I love the light weight of the 100D, but is it too small for good handling and are there too few buttons and displays for your preference? (I can't answer that one, but I just changed to a significantly heavier m43 camera for better ergonomics as well as the improved sensor.)

I would say it depends on budget and timescale, but a 70D should be along in a few months (June-Aug probably) and might be a big step up. However it'll be solidly built so you're screwed on weight reduction (the 20D is 685g and the 100D 407g, but quite a bit of the weight you are carrying is in lenses and with a crop sensor you're increasingly getting heavier as the focal length goes up).

Also it's partly a case of what you like to shoot, although the 20D is very old now (mine's been stuck in its box the last four years) so you'll certainly notice the upgrade. Do consider getting something with a decent sized viewfinder, as the 20D's is a bit on the small size.

Other things to consider are getting one with WiFi and a tilt-swivel rear screen, as both can be useful (although the slow liveview AF of the Canons does make over-the-crowd shots much harder than a mirrorless camera with a similar screen).

The 15-85 is certainly a nice general purpose lens.

Changing systems is always a tough one and you get locked-in after a number of lenses, you are close to being there.

For weight I'd say do the maths on what you are carrying in total.
For example I used to take my GF1 camera as my holiday camera, as I could carry a super-zoom lens plus a small fast prime for when it got dark and the weight was sensible compared to taking the 5DmkII.
GF1 + EVF + 20/1.7 + 14-140 = 932g
But that excludes a camera bag. I used a Lowepro Rezo 110AW at 360g so had 1.3 Kg for the lot and could carry it all day without a problem.
Last week I took my GH3 as follows:
GH3 + 12-35 + 35-100 = 1.2 Kg
Which won't go in the Rezo.
My favorite small-ish bag recently is the ThinkTank Retrospective 5 Pinestone, but that's 1040g and suddenly I had a lot of weight.
I changed to a 535g Kata Nimble-3 DL and I'm down to 1.75 Kg which I can live with (although I changed the shoulder pad). After a lot of walking around with it on my shoulder I've decided it will do for all-day non-photographic-specific trips (like Holidays) but it's on the limit (for me).

Today I'm taking the 5DmkII and two lenses, I'll probably steal the Kata bag from the GH3 to make it 2Kg
However I can always just take my RX100, which takes better pictures than my 20D or GF1 and is only 240g with battery and card. Except no viewfinder and you don't get to change the lens. You really can't win... there is no perfect camera and it's just down to making trade-offs based on what you want to do and can afford... just don't forget the weight of the lenses and the bag to hold it all...

Hope that wasn't too confusing, wrote it very quickly...

[MX5]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

I wish I knew the answer. If the weather is good I pack a 40D plus 24-105L. If the weather is atrocious I pack an old G10. I've not yet taken the RX100 on many walks (well we haven't had the weather). I did buy an Olympus thing for wet days ... but it lacks everything ... so will probably end up at the charity shop. But then I look at things rationally ... saving a few 100 grams is it worth it? ... In winter I carry anything up to 2L of fluids (and in the summer up to 3.5L) ... that's 2000 to 3500 grams (okay decreasing over time). But if you want the quality, the ability to go (proper) manual and a real viewfinder ... then like me you'll be looking and thinking There's no pain ....

I was climbing up Doups yesterday which is quite steep and in the wet quite slippy so I stashed the G10 ... which meant with a 20kg backpack scrambling awkwardly to keep my CoG sensible. Oh for traveling light!!

[dkane95]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

What about a 1100d? I've used one in low light and it's good. Especially compared to my 50D which I imagine is way better than a 20d. The 1100d is also the smallest and lightest DSLR I have ever used. You may also consider the 600D as it is identical almost to the 700d and I believe you can still buy it new.

The 1100d doesn't have such a good screen though, you won't notice it coming from a 20D but I do having used the newer ones. It's also very cheap especially if you buy it used.

The other advantage to a 600D is that it can work wirelessly with canon speedlites.

[2Beers]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

Why not go full frame with the 6D not sure if all your lenses will fit

[DrJon]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

The 700D is 580g so it doesn't save you a lot, but it does add a lot of new features and should have better picture quality (err, except see below). It does look like for a big weight saving you need the 100D (plus carefully thinking about lenses) or to consider changing/adding systems.

Actually DXO rates all the Canon bodies pretty much the same, which I really (really) didn't expect:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/870%7C0/(brand)/Canon/(appareil2)/693%7C0/(brand2)/Canon/(appareil3)/281%7C0/(brand3)/Canon

...20D better at high ISO than the 700D, didn't see that coming!
Some others:

http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/Cameras/Compare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/(appareil1)/839%7C0/(brand)/Olympus/(appareil2)/832%7C0/(brand2)/Sony/(appareil3)/281%7C0/(brand3)/Canon

To save more weight you need mirrorless such as m43 with its light lenses or the XE1's lighter body (350g) which also adds better high ISO into the mix, and throws away fast focusing somewhat. I don't have a perfect answer I'm afraid.

[DenisV]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

Lot sof good points here:

Here's some instant thoughts before I dash out...
I love the light weight of the 100D, but is it too small for good handling and are there too few buttons and displays for your preference? (I can't answer that one, but I just changed to a significantly heavier m43 camera for better ergonomics as well as the improved sensor.)

After trying I am ok on controls, just about ok on handling re lenses but not ok on handling re flash.

Here's some instant thoughts before I dash out...
I would say it depends on budget and timescale, but a 70D should be along in a few months (June-Aug probably) and might be a big step up. However it'll be solidly built so you're screwed on weight reduction (the 20D is 685g and the 100D 407g, but quite a bit of the weight you are carrying is in lenses and with a crop sensor you're increasingly getting heavier as the focal length goes up).

Yes, future cameras are always exciting and I am happy to wait as my 20d is still going strong. But the weight reduction is the main priority so I am mor einterested in what haappens with the M system and even can wait for the next 100D.

Also it's partly a case of what you like to shoot, although the 20D is very old now (mine's been stuck in its box the last four years) so you'll certainly notice the upgrade. Do consider getting something with a decent sized viewfinder, as the 20D's is a bit on the small size.

I think I am ok with 20Ds and 100Ds viewfinders, good enough for me, but I do not want a camera without one or with an electronic one.

Other things to consider are getting one with WiFi and a tilt-swivel rear screen, as both can be useful (although the slow liveview AF of the Canons does make over-the-crowd shots much harder than a mirrorless camera with a similar screen).

Not bothered about wifi at all (maybe it is a case of not wanting only becasue of having not tried it). Actually prefer fixed screen - for robustness.

Changing systems is always a tough one and you get locked-in after a number of lenses, you are close to being there.

Agreed, but will consider if there is a fully developed high-quality system. Fuji is very interesting but I do not know enough about it. What is the lens choice?

[DenisV]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

I wish I knew the answer. If the weather is good I pack a 40D plus 24-105L. If the weather is atrocious I pack an old G10. I've not yet taken the RX100 on many walks (well we haven't had the weather). I did buy an Olympus thing for wet days ... but it lacks everything ... so will probably end up at the charity shop. But then I look at things rationally ... saving a few 100 grams is it worth it? ... In winter I carry anything up to 2L of fluids (and in the summer up to 3.5L) ... that's 2000 to 3500 grams (okay decreasing over time). But if you want the quality, the ability to go (proper) manual and a real viewfinder ... then like me you'll be looking and thinking There's no pain ....

I was climbing up Doups yesterday which is quite steep and in the wet quite slippy so I stashed the G10 ... which meant with a 20kg backpack scrambling awkwardly to keep my CoG sensible. Oh for traveling light!!

Yes, I would also consider a G series. Something liek G15 (fixed screen) but with a better sensor and lens. - Does not exist (at least in Canon)!

[DenisV]

Re: New camera - downsize - but to what - 100D?

What about a 1100d? I've used one in low light and it's good. Especially compared to my 50D which I imagine is way better than a 20d. The 1100d is also the smallest and lightest DSLR I have ever used. You may also consider the 600D as it is identical almost to the 700d and I believe you can still buy it new.

The 1100d doesn't have such a good screen though, you won't notice it coming from a 20D but I do having used the newer ones. It's also very cheap especially if you buy it used.

The other advantage to a 600D is that it can work wirelessly with canon speedlites.

Never looked at 1100D - for some reason assume it is too dumbed down and not durable enough. Dont know whay I assume that.