7D2 noise, round 2!

[Parsen66]

Managed to get out for an hour yesterday in between the rain. Not a great day light wise but needed to give the camera another try to assess the noise that I am seeing. I let the camera decide the ISO by setting it to auto. I tried various F stops and kept away from any shadows where possible.

Below are a few that show the problem. Well, they did before I exported them from LR as .jpegs.

In comparison to the shots I took with the 7D, the level of noise is vastly different. Before they only needed a tweak and now I am pushing the slider well above the 50 mark in LR. This cannot be right surely? I'm wondering if I have a duff one but have nothing other than previous shots and experience to gauge it by. What I really need is from someone else to try my camera to see if its me before I trudge back to the shop and complain.

NOTE: in camera noise reduction was turned off. I'm sure it only affects jpegs anyway but so far cannot find anything to confirm if it has an effect on RAW, nothing in the manual to confirm this.

739A0020 by Alan Reeve, on Flickr

739A0042 by Alan Reeve, on Flickr

739A0045 by Alan Reeve, on Flickr

As I said above, in RAW they are awful but after exporting without altering the OOC shot (not editing or tweaking at all) they seem less noisy. HELP please

[David Stallard]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

Alan,
Does look off to me - sorry I didn't see this earlier as we have could have met up somewhere, not saying I could have done anything different but could have looked.

Had a very quick look on line and found THIS

The paragraph I found interesting stated:

[quote]
Now a little about the processing. It was shot with a "Faithful" picture style which applies 0 sharpening. This is a really really important point and you need to understand its significance. If you set the style as " Standard" then sharpening is applied to the whole image. If you leave this untouched then the RAW converter, Canon's DPP in this case, will sharpen the RAW during processing to the same degree and you will get a TIFF that has been sharpened across the whole image. This means all the noisy bits have been sharpened too!!! Myself, and many pros like me, never ever ever do this. We sharpen only the bits of the image that need sharpening, i.e. the deer here. This means that I switch off all sharpening, by using "Faithful" and ensure that the RAW converter does the same at processing time. Then, when I am finished my colour correction in Photoshop I sharpen only the deer using Nik Sharpen on a layer. That way I avoid any background noise being sharpened. I have done this with every single camera I have ever used and I have applied it here to the 7D2 as well.
[end quote]

Next Friday we are out but I may have some time on Saturday if you like - no promises as I have never used the 7Dmkii.

.DAVID.

[Parsen66]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

Dave,

Thanks for your reply. I read the link and it makes interesting reading for sure. I too use the 'standard' pictures style as the guy mentions. I used this for my older 7D too and never had any issues. But I shall certainly turn it off and see what difference it makes.

Be good to meet up with you next weekend if you have the time. As were are both spitting distance from each other it should be too hard hey! Many thanks for your offer, really appreciate it.

[Parsen66]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

Just conducted my own test, not that scientific for sure but it shows the scale of my problem, or I think it does.

All images shot with the same aperture, F11, 35mm and various ISO. Hopefully you can see the amount of noise really from ISO400. No processing LR in at all, straight out of camera.

[David Stallard]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

Alan,

Will be in touch a bit closer to the weekend. Pictures you attached are too small to really gauge your concerns I'm afraid, oh and just out of interest - are you using the same lens all the time or have you tried a few different ones?

.DAVID.

[Parsen66]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

Alan,

Will be in touch a bit closer to the weekend. Pictures you attached are too small to really gauge your concerns I'm afraid, oh and just out of interest - are you using the same lens all the time or have you tried a few different ones?

.DAVID.

The pics are a link which can be enlarged Dave. I've only used the 24-105L so far.

[Alan Campbell]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

Just read the post that David put up, very interesting as I too have always used standard.
My next outing I shall be using the faithfull picture style to see if it makes any diffrence.

Alan

[the black fox]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

i always use faithful and feel that it does help to a large degree ,i was told this by one of the semi pros up here years ago ,but he's a mate of andy rouses anyway .
i still harbour doubts though as to how effective it is with a c sized sensor ,once you move on from them to either the 1d H sensor or to full frame you certainly notice the difference

[Parsen66]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

i always use faithful and feel that it does help to a large degree ,i was told this by one of the semi pros up here years ago ,but he's a mate of andy rouses anyway .
i still harbour doubts though as to how effective it is with a c sized sensor ,once you move on from them to either the 1d H sensor or to full frame you certainly notice the difference

Jeff, I'm assuming you have not had the same levels of noise that I am experiencing? Or if you did, what did you do to counteract them?

[the black fox]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

alan i use a old (by todays standards ) 1Dmkiii only 10mp but i can shoot with that right up to 3200 iso with limited noise i.e controllable in p.p

the other camera is a 70d and while its similar sensor wise to a d7d2 the a/f system etc is not as advanced .the files i get from this tend like yours to be very noisy initially some of them to the point of do i keep or bin them .in fact last tuesday i got home and was on the point of doing just that ,however once i started the p.p process the soft and noisy files started to change in to workable images ,you do need to work at them and selective layering ,rigorous background n/r ,file size reduction,then selective subject sharpening do work .i am at the moment sat on the fence as to whether to keep this camera and my experience with it has kept me from moving to a 7d2 .in fact if i do get another body i think it will be towards full frame

for example 1st below is a photo out of camera but cropped in and first stage editing done ,before layering ,n.r ,and sharpening
IMG_0265 by blackfox wildlife and nature imaging, on Flickr

and again same photo AFTER the finishing touches have been applied ,as i have said many times most perceived advances in camera technology are in fact down to more advanced photoshop availability
things are looking up by blackfox wildlife and nature imaging, on Flickr

[Parsen66]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

Jeff, thanks for your detailed reply. Sorry I thought that like Stan you used the 7d2 as well, clearly not now.

The unprocessed shot you attached, what was the ISO on that please? Looking at the level of it I would be very pleased if I could achieve the same, assuming its a high number. I'm seeing similar at around 400 ISO

PS, just clicked on the final image which is public and saw that it was ISO 800

I can see the work that has gone into the finished image, its looks really good. Typically I would spend some time to process my images provided I had something that I could work with. At the moment mine are all for the bin.

[the black fox]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

alan the trouble is thats in good light on a sunny (thats unusual ) morning ,under the branch is obviously in the shade .the sensor on the 70d is pretty similar to the 7d2 only the a/f and supposed better n/r at higher iso levels taking them apart .

however although the shot retains the sharpness in the birds details etc and comes up nice when processed theres something niggling at me that says this shouldn't really be like this .i will see if nat is up to letting me have a few test shots with his 6d to check that out before i make a decision over what to do .

i do know that while my 1D3 is only 10mp on a 1.6 H sensor the files from it come out a lot cleaner i.e far less noise than those from the 70d so would i in fact be better off with full frame and less noise but larger crops

[Parsen66]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

alan the trouble is thats in good light on a sunny (thats unusual ) morning ,under the branch is obviously in the shade .the sensor on the 70d is pretty similar to the 7d2 only the a/f and supposed better n/r at higher iso levels taking them apart .

however although the shot retains the sharpness in the birds details etc and comes up nice when processed theres something niggling at me that says this shouldn't really be like this .i will see if nat is up to letting me have a few test shots with his 6d to check that out before i make a decision over what to do .

i do know that while my 1D3 is only 10mp on a 1.6 H sensor the files from it come out a lot cleaner i.e far less noise than those from the 70d so would i in fact be better off with full frame and less noise but larger crops

For a 10mp camera its done really well. My 7D2 is twice that! For me right now, I'd go for less noise. Its got to be better to have a cleaner image that needs less fiddling surely? Although, I like to fiddle

[the black fox]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

alan the trouble is that while its easy to crop a bird pic and layer the bird then do n/r ,if the noise levels are on the bird/subject then once you get into that sort of n/r you start to destroy fine detail so yes keeping the noise levels down is a major consideration ,i have even toyed with going back to the dark side as there cameras are far in advance of canons ,but thinking back i had a lot of problems re-compatabilty and gear failure at critical times which is why i changed back to canon .

i do like the fact that on this forum you can put your thoughts down without some idjit ripping you to pieces for it ,it helps greatly with your own inner arguments to put in writing the pros and cons of each side of your thoughts .this terrible weather up here has kept me in for 6 days now and leaves to much thinking time to deal with and its when the silly ideas start to surface .take no notice just clearing my thought strands

[Parsen66]

Re: 7D2 noise, round 2!

i do like the fact that on this forum you can put your thoughts down without some idjit ripping you to pieces for it ,it helps greatly with your own inner arguments to put in writing the pros and cons of each side of your thoughts .this terrible weather up here has kept me in for 6 days now and leaves to much thinking time to deal with and its when the silly ideas start to surface .take no notice just clearing my thought strands

Same here Jeff. I can ramble on and on and not get judge or tutted at. That's what the wife is for