7D Experiment

[Oggie]

Re: 7D Experiment

Full size RAW - slight adjustments to levels and sharpened in DPP and PSE

Suspicions confirmed. There is no way I can get a picture in full size RAW with mine.

[Trevoreast]

Re: 7D Experiment

I could do test shots myself for less by hiring a 7D for the day

That's actually a very good idea, get it for three days and put it through its paces, least you'd be sure whether the 7D was right for you or not.

Trev

[DaveCurley]

Re: 7D Experiment

Oggie

As has been touched on already, any Raw file, is just that a raw file that requires work on it, unlike a Jpeg, which is a compressed file already processed to view and use by your camera. Liken a Raw file to a film negative, you need to play with the file sharpen it genearly process it to get them best out of it. If you dont want to print large or get published then stick to jpeg,

[briansquibb]

Re: 7D Experiment

Oggie

As has been touched on already, any Raw file, is just that a raw file that requires work on it, unlike a Jpeg, which is a compressed file already processed to view and use by your camera. Liken a Raw file to a film negative, you need to play with the file sharpen it genearly process it to get them best out of it. If you dont want to print large or get published then stick to jpeg,

Downside to sticking to jpeg is that the camera HAS to be set up correctly for each shot and in the manner that you see the final picture. That is particularly critical for white balance. I was shooting candids last night and the light temp was 2500 - 3000 - no way of setting up white balance for that as it was changing according to the direction that I was taking a photo.

It takes so little effort to post process a RAW file that I believe the default should be shoot in RAW and process at your leisure.

Here is an example of a shot from last night. This is a reportage shot for the goat sanctuary's Christmas Open Evening.




Camera Model: Canon EOS-1D Mark IV
Lens: EF17-40mm f/4L USM
Image Date: 2011-12-10 18:20:56 (no TZ)
Focal Length: 17.0mm
Aperture: f/8.0
Exposure Time: 0.033 s (1/30)
ISO equiv: 12800 (Auto ISO)
Exposure Mode: Manual
White Balance: Auto

[Hereford_EOS2]

Re: 7D Experiment

The reason I ask is that my 7D has just returned from Elstree where it went to have it's sharpness sorted and when it came back it seemed very much better. When I got a chance to try it more thoroughly, I found it set to medium JPG. When I set it back to large RAW, it is as bad as ever.

Having sent the Canon 7D to Canon Elstree to have it's "sharpness" sorted and coming back "very much better" is the question one of Quality Control?
When I say "Quality Control" I am talking about the sensor and processors within the 7D.
Each and every 7D camera should perform exactly the same but like all things mechanical/electronic they can not be EXACTLY the same, there must be variations even if minute.
As many replies to this post state, a RAW file is just a RAW file which needs post processing to bring the best out of the image, all the information is there.
But ... with the variations of QC of the sensor and processors is it possible that a camera can produce a lower quality RAW file than intended and maybe produce a better quality mRaw or sRaw as that part of the camera's processing is working fine?

I have mentioned before within my own posts that I was having problems with my 7D and my 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II lens.
My current 7D is six months old and my 2nd copy as the 1st copy was taken/stolen/nicked.
My 1st copy of the 7D was absolutely "spot on" whilst I have not been 100% happy with my current 7D.
So (like Oggie) I sent my 7D to Elstree together with all my "L" lenses for checking and calibration.
On return I am happier with my 7D (just like Oggie) and can not complain about images taken with the "L" lenses except with the 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II.
I am still not happy with that combination, so much so that I sold my 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II lens this week.
I met up with the person who bought the lens and he tried it on his 7D camera and the results were far better than when used on my 7D camera.
The results were "pin-sharp" at all focal lengths whilst I have been complaining about images taken at the long end (150-200mm).
Even at 200mm at full magnification on the screen the image was excellent unlike on my 7D.
Have I made a mistake in selling that lens? I think I may have as the problem must now be the camera based on the image results.

So can Oggie be correct in his observations in respect of the difference in quality between RAW, mRAW and sRAW images on "his" camera?
Is "his camera" not not coping with the processing of large RAW files for whatever reason? I think it is possible.

[briansquibb]

Re: 7D Experiment

I have mentioned before within my own posts that I was having problems with my 7D and my 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II lens.

I met up with the person who bought the lens and he tried it on his 7D camera and the results were far better than when used on my 7D camera.
The results were "pin-sharp" at all focal lengths whilst I have been complaining about images taken at the long end (150-200mm).
Even at 200mm at full magnification on the screen the image was excellent unlike on my 7D.
Have I made a mistake in selling that lens? I think I may have as the problem must now be the camera based on the image results.

So can Oggie be correct in his observations in respect of the difference in quality between RAW, mRAW and sRAW images on "his" camera?
Is "his camera" not not coping with the processing of large RAW files for whatever reason? I think it is possible.

Sounds like the 70-200 needed a spot of micro focus with your example of the 7D then. If all other lens work OK on your 7D and the 70-200 works OK on another 7D then I would say micro focus was needed.

My 70-200 works spot on on all my bodies and all lens work spot on on both my 7D's so I would say it is not a design issue.

I am puzzled by Oggie's issue as electrical varience is not something I have come across before. Only possible I could think of is the CF card.

[Hereford_EOS2]

Re: 7D Experiment

Sounds like the 70-200 needed a spot of micro focus with your example of the 7D then. If all other lens work OK on your 7D and the 70-200 works OK on another 7D then I would say micro focus was needed.

I had the camera calibrated to all my lenses by Canon and still the 70-200mm was not spot on at the long end, although results have been good (not excellent) at the short end in good light.
I have just been through my 2011 images with the 7D (shot RAW + L jpg or mRAW + L jpg) and not one of the images taken with any of the lenses are "pin-sharp" and I have had to be very selective with the images posted here on the forum.
How can 2 cameras purchased approx 18 months apart behave so differently?
I have looked for similar images taken with both cameras for comparison but without success.

I am puzzled by Oggie's issue as electrical varience is not something I have come across before. Only possible I could think of is the CF card.

The CF card is something that I have not considered. I am however using Sandisk Extreme cards, the current ones I am using are faster read/write, 65Mb/sec compared to 40Mb/sec a year or so ago.

[Donphotography]

Re: 7D Experiment

At the end of the day do you guy's think that the 7D is worth all the issues you are having to sort out, I wonder if there was or is another canon camera that has had so much experimenting with + trial and era.
just curious to know.

[briansquibb]

Re: 7D Experiment

I have two 7D's that have no issues.

The only noise on the forum are caused by 2. Most people are extremely happy with their 7D - it is definitely not a lemon.

New technology creates new problems for the users - look at the mis understanding about the new AF - not a problem with the 7D

[briansquibb]

Re: 7D Experiment

I have just been through my 2011 images with the 7D (shot RAW + L jpg or mRAW + L jpg) and not one of the images taken with any of the lenses are "pin-sharp" and I have had to be very selective with the images posted here on the forum.
How can 2 cameras purchased approx 18 months apart behave so differently?

What post processing do you do?

What changes to styles have you done?

[Hereford_EOS2]

Re: 7D Experiment

What post processing do you do?

What changes to styles have you done?

I am comparing the jpg images as I only used to shoot jpg only 18 months ago, I now shoot RAW (or mRAW) + jpg.
So I am comparing out of the camera jpg images.

The only noise on the forum are caused by 2. Most people are extremely happy with their 7D - it is definitely not a lemon.

I was extremely happy with my first 7D, it was the best crop camera in the world (IMHO)

[Oggie]

Re: 7D Experiment

To recap a point I made in the begining - The problem only occurs on the 7D in large raw/jpeg. Medium and small on the 7D and all sizes on my 1D Mk IV are fine. No amount of PP in DPP, Silkypix or PSE7 produce an acceptable picture.

It is not a CF card issue either. Unlike film, digital pictures are simply stored as '1's and '0's. If there was a problem with the media, the picture would almost certainly be a total loss rather than degraded as it would be on film. The same goes to almost all of the digital part of the system.

[briansquibb]

Re: 7D Experiment

I am comparing the jpg images as I only used to shoot jpg only 18 months ago, I now shoot RAW (or mRAW) + jpg.
So I am comparing out of the camera jpg images.

I was extremely happy with my first 7D, it was the best crop camera in the world (IMHO)

Post processing is very important to know - how do you know that the settings on #1 are the same as #2?? Just a simple style change would make the jpg totally different

[Treff]

Re: 7D Experiment

Just to add my two pence to this thread. Oggie I would try one last test. Put a flashgun on your 7D and take a few indoor pics setting shutter speed at 200. Then post one of the pics back here.
If they are at all soft then try with another lens. If still soft then I would suggest a camera fault. First though try the direct flash test.
Cheers
Treff

[Trevoreast]

Re: 7D Experiment

Oggie I' m not sure why you haven't got the camera swapped out if it's faulty - have canon said there's nothing wrong with it ?

Trev