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    Options for longer reach

    I'll be the first to admit that I jumped in head first without thinking when I bought the 70-200 2.8 IS MKII. People said you'll miss the reach of the 70-300 and I justified to myself that there was little difference between 200 & 300mm.

    I'm starting to notice now that there's no real fault with the 7D. It was designed perfectly. It wasn't however, designed to have the wrong focal length used for a particular subject. For ages now I've been using it at 200mm, and cropping my shots. Yes there's a massive risk and some shots are bang on focus and you can get away with it. However, much of the problems I've been having with tracking moving subjects lately are because the subject is just too far away for the camera to see it let alone track it.

    That's when it hit me. I need something longer.

    Options

    1. Sell the 70-200 and get a Sigma 150-500, and a Sigma 17-50 2.8 (always wanted one)
    2. Sell the 70-200 and get a Canon 400mm f.5.6
    3. Do it all on the cheap with an old FD prime with converters.
    4. Buy a 2x MKIII teleconverter, on the credit card.

    There is no budget for new lenses, I pretty much blew that out the water with the 70-200 purchase. I am now feeling the restrictions of my decision, and often have great success with it, but would probably get better success with being closer optically.

    I must add that I have bought a hide recently. A nice comfy chair hide, however, that's more geared towards me knowing an area and watching a particular bird or the like. I'm talking about a walk about situation where I see something and can reach it without trying to act like a ninja and resorting to crawling about on all fours like I was yesterday following a Buzzard lol

    This shot was the result of 35 mins walking and crawling very slowly about wet long grass and only moving when it was turned away. It's also a 50% crop. Tracked from the moment it left the tree as it flew along the tree line in the field. Out of 15 shots, only two were in focus. I didn't use continuous burst, instead opting for some controlled bursts of 3 or so.


    This was one of 15 shots that was in focus. Shocking numbers. by Campsie Photography, on Flickr

    The IQ of the 70-200 is so amazing that there's no doubt I'd miss it, but for wildlife in focus limiting situations your subject really needs to be isolated before you can get a good shot. The 7D also really doesn't focus well on things smaller in the frame if they are far away. It's AF system is built for things bigger in the frame I think. Probably like most cameras to be honest. However, I'm assessing my options.

    Summary

    My current style of shooting wildlife is really walking around green belt areas where hills and trees are everywhere. All manor of birds and ground dwelling animals live there and I'm looking for options on getting as closer optically. I also plan to sit in the hide at times in this area for as long as my good lady will allow lol.
    Fuji X-T1 | 1D IV
    www.campsie.photography

    #2
    Re: Options for longer reach

    I'll be watching your deliberations and progress with interest Paul, I've been contemplating a 2x T/C for my 70-200 to replace my Sigma 150-500 as it's purported to be better quality and equally fast to focus, but after taking the Sigma out and using it for a day I'm not disappointed in it. It'll be interesting to read what people have to say on the matter.

    One limitation of the 150-500, particularly on a crop body, is that it can be too long. The equivalent of 240mm at the short end is still reasonably telephoto and I've been in situations where I can't zoom-out enough. Admittedly I don't do a lot of birding, so this may not be relevant in that circumstance.
    Steve's kit - Canon 6D/EG-D/BG-E13/60D/EF-D/BG-E9/600 EX-RT/17-40L/24-105L/40/100L/70-200L/70-300/2x iii/Sigma 8-16/Yongnuo YN-568EX (x2)/YN560EX II/YN622C-TX/YN622C (x4)

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      #3
      Re: Options for longer reach

      Howaboat a 300 f4 + 1.4 to get you more flexibility?

      The restrictions on long lens is that you have to have a fast shutter speed - which may be difficult with the 7D and the more limited ISO possibility
      Last edited by briansquibb; 12-12-2013, 09:46.
      ef-r

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        #4
        Re: Options for longer reach

        Originally posted by S_J_P View Post
        I'll be watching your deliberations and progress with interest Paul, I've been contemplating a 2x T/C for my 70-200 to replace my Sigma 150-500 as it's purported to be better quality and equally fast to focus, but after taking the Sigma out and using it for a day I'm not disappointed in it. It'll be interesting to read what people have to say on the matter.

        One limitation of the 150-500, particularly on a crop body, is that it can be too long. The equivalent of 240mm at the short end is still reasonably telephoto and I've been in situations where I can't zoom-out enough. Admittedly I don't do a lot of birding, so this may not be relevant in that circumstance.
        The only reason I mentioned the Sigma 150-500 specifically was because of my partner in crime Steven, who uses one on his 40D and to be honest with great success. This is his photostream and one can't help but take inspiration with the images he's getting with that set-up. He keeps telling me to get a 2x tele but they are £300 or so and it's a lump if it doesn't work out.

        Originally posted by briansquibb View Post
        Howaboat a 300 f4 + 1.4 to get you more flexibility?

        The restrictions on long lens is that you have to have a fast shutter speed - which may be difficult with the 7D and the more limited ISO possibility
        I'd likely need to sell the 70-200 to afford that set up Brian. It's a tough one. Also it would result in a 400 5.6, and would a 400 5.6 just be a better option and would it AF quicker than a 300 f/4 with 1.4 tele? These are teh things that would keep me up at night lol

        Edit*
        Just noticed the 300 f4 has IS and the 400 5.6 does not. Both are the same prices used on MPB. Shots with the 300 f4 and 1.4x TC are off the scale on IQ, and no one seems to moan about AF speeds.
        Last edited by Paulstw; 12-12-2013, 10:23.
        Fuji X-T1 | 1D IV
        www.campsie.photography

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          #5
          Re: Options for longer reach

          Get a 1.4 mk3 extender gives you 280 not far off the 300 and you then still have f4.0
          Hire one first maybe and see how you get on!

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Options for longer reach

            I've been reading non stop about the 300mm f/4 IS USM paired with the 1.4x TC and mostly everyone says its a killer combination. I could hire it all to see how I got with it. It's an option.

            Wildlife is thee most interesting aspect of photography for me on a personal level. Portraits, weddings and stuff like that is the working part of photography that I'll do if I'm asked. However, it's the wildlife part I've been neglecting in terms of equipment of late. The 300 with 1.4 appeals to me because if you don't want it longer you can just take the tele converter off.
            Fuji X-T1 | 1D IV
            www.campsie.photography

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              #7
              Re: Options for longer reach

              I borrowed my dad's Canon 100-400 once and was very surprise to see I like it as much as the 70-200 + 1.4x
              Fast, easy, cheap. Great lenses. By selling the 70-200 you can even get it + a 1.4x

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                #8
                Re: Options for longer reach

                I must admit I don't like the push/pull feature of that lens. I rest the lens on my hand and elbow on my chest keeping a tight grip. If I had push/pull I'd have to use my arm in an awkward way ( I think)

                Having the 70-200 has been great but it's making me sad that I can't get the reach.
                Fuji X-T1 | 1D IV
                www.campsie.photography

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                  #9
                  Re: Options for longer reach

                  I did a review of the 2.0TC III here:- http://www.eos-magazine-forum.com/sh...nder-EF-2x-III
                  While I found the IQ to be very good, it was a lot slower to track/lock focus, and that was using primes (200 F2.8/300 F2.8), so may fall short tracking fast moving subjects.

                  My preferred option would be a 300 F4 +1.4TC or 400 F5.6 (a very highly rated lens) .
                  Concentrate on equipment and you'll take technically good photographs. Concentrate on seeing the light's magic colours and your images will stir the soul. - Jack Dykinga
                  Light makes photography. Embrace light. Admire it. Love it. But above all, know light. Know it for all you are worth, and you will know the key to photography- George Eastman

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                    #10
                    Re: Options for longer reach

                    For birds i think bigger will always be better. Converters are good for the occasional extra reach but don't expect miracles.
                    Another vote for 400mm prime, though you will still need good light to get the best results,(something were not blessed with in the UK ?)

                    Paul
                    EOS 1Dx, - EF 24-105L f4,- Sigma 135 f1.8 Art - EF 400L IS f2.8, - Speedlite 430EXII.
                    Freelance Sports Photographer for local Press - https://twitter.com/P_linton99

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                      #11
                      Re: Options for longer reach

                      Aye light is duff here now. I was out yesterday between 1pm and 2:45pm and the light had just disappeared. Sun went down about ten past three. By the time I got up to my street it was dark.

                      I think for this sort of thing I'm better testing them out. Some folk I speak to prefer the 400 5.6 and some swear by the 300 with 1.4x TC. It's kinda a lot like that in photography. There's no definitive answer and everyone does it different.

                      One interesting thing that does pop up a lot is the use of IS and why it's pointless :)
                      Fuji X-T1 | 1D IV
                      www.campsie.photography

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                        #12
                        Re: Options for longer reach

                        One interesting thing that does pop up a lot is the use of IS and why it's pointless :)
                        Don't get me started on that issue

                        Paul
                        EOS 1Dx, - EF 24-105L f4,- Sigma 135 f1.8 Art - EF 400L IS f2.8, - Speedlite 430EXII.
                        Freelance Sports Photographer for local Press - https://twitter.com/P_linton99

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Options for longer reach

                          Originally posted by paul linton View Post
                          Don't get me started on that issue

                          Paul
                          Only reason I brought that up was because I was reading into the differences of the older 300 f/4 and the new one, and why pro's end up sticking with the older one. Newer photogs buy lenses with IS over non IS and all that. I have been really guilty of leaving it on to be honest. I should actively be more careful about this practice or laziness.

                          The way I think about this situation is

                          Prime is going to trump zoom on IQ (So I'm told)
                          Using a TC is going to degrade IQ because Canon just simply would not let it happen in fear of losing a bigger lens purchase.
                          Logically the 400 5.6 is going to be the go to lens, however, if MFT charts are to be believed, the 300 f/4 is sharper.
                          With the 400 5.6, you're stuck at 400. The 300 with 1.4TC can be put at 420 or 300 with the removal of a TC.

                          Anyway thats all based on theory. If I won a grand tomorrow then that would be a different kettle of monkeys.
                          Fuji X-T1 | 1D IV
                          www.campsie.photography

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Options for longer reach

                            I did watch an interesting video about someone who has the 70-200 and a 2X TC. He noted that in focal limiting situations it's better to have the TC on as opposed to cropping as it's able to resolve finer detail. There's no substitute to getting closer and that'll win over anything, however, if it's a case of cropping versus using a TC then using the TC is going to yield a better result.

                            That's comforting to know. I might be able to just get away with getting a TC. Only thing I'd like to investigate is the impact of AF speed.

                            I think I've opened a can of worms man...
                            Fuji X-T1 | 1D IV
                            www.campsie.photography

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Options for longer reach

                              I've been reading non stop about the 300mm f/4 IS USM paired with the 1.4x TC and mostly everyone says its a killer combination.
                              As you know both Dee and I use that combination and i would hope that our images speak to its quality - also effectively it gives you 2 prime lenses, with or without the converter. As far as a 2x is concerned i would steer clear as with losing 2 stops of light you are going to need perfect conditions for it to perform at its best. I have a mk II which i use very occasionally with my 70-200 f2.8 but as \i say it needs really really good light to get a decent image

                              Stan
                              Stan - LRPS, CPAGB, BPE2*

                              http://neptuno-photography.foliopic.com/
                              flickr

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