Some 300 f2.8 questions??

[SamFisher]

The next lens on "my want" list is a 300 f2.8.
I was wondering what happened to all the Mk1 Canon lenses?
All companies are advertising the new Mk2 versions and at almost 7K they are way way out of my price range.
I can't see Mk1 owners selling theirs to upgrade to Mk2 models so the 2nd hand market will probably be devoid of Mk1s

I would probably sell my 300 f4 + 70-200 f4 nonIS to help my purchase.

So this would probably have me thinking about a 3rd party 300 f2.8, namely Sigma.
Does anyone have experience of the Sigma 300 f2.8 EX DG + 2x EX DG APO converter?

At the end of the day do you think Canon have priced themselves out of the amateur/semi pro market?
I would certainly prefer to buy Canon but the new versions are way out of my finances.

It would be interesting to hear other's views on the subject.

Mike

[Rasputin]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

I too have a desire for a 300 2.8, but the mortgage comes first

[Neilly]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

Hi Sam,

Try e-mailing Ian Kerr at Kerso Cameras, he might be able to help you. I bought my 300mm f2.8 from him & at the time, he was the cheapest.

kerso1123@msn.com

I know the Sigma is pretty good. A mate of mine had one on his Dark Side camera before he bought the Noink version. However, I wouldn't bother with the x2 TC unless you have plenty of time for the AF to work. The x1.4 TC would be a better option - I would give the same advice for the Canon 300mm, too.

Cheers,
Neil

[Trevoreast]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

At the end of the day do you think Canon have priced themselves out of the amateur/semi pro market?

Maybe to some extent Mike, but on the other hand some canon L lenses are vastly superior to their 3rd party alternatives.
Canon deserve to charge a premium for making better lenses ---- as long as they don't cross the line into rip off territory. :-)

I've flirted with a few 3rd party lenses only to come back to "Aunty Canon". Having said that I have no regrets, about buying fast 3rd party lenses as they enabled me to get pics while I was saving. If you need a 300mm 2.8 the sigma will be better than nothing, in the meantime, for the reason I mentioned.

Out of Interest, what specfic purpose do you want this lens for ? What sort of pix is not having this lens stopping you from producing ?
Do you use your 300 F4 quite often, or want/need to use it quite often, but the extra stop in the main thing that stops you using it ?

Those are questions I ask myself prior to buying a lens, cost V benefit, and I sometimes ask myself if it's fair to my family to spend so much money on camera stuff.

Trev

[DrJon]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

I have the mk 1 300 2.8 and I wouldn't change it for anything, the only thing you could improve (IMHO) is the stabiliser, but as I'm usually shooting stuff that needs a high-ish shutter speed anyway I'm not that fussed (it is useful for steadying the view when composing though). What I will say is the main pro (other than the staggeringly good optics) is the weight isn't that bad and the main con is it isn't that much reach for all the dosh, especially on a full-frame camera (it does stick out a bit too, you won't be shooting anything candidly).

BTW interesting to compare the MTF chart for the Mk I here:

http://usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_300mm_f_2_8l_is_usm

with the Mk II here:

http://usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/ef_lens_lineup/ef_300mm_f_2_8l_is_ii_usm

plus with the two extenders. Looks like the new 1.4x is still not going to cause you any great problems and the 2x will still lose some contrast (I think I'm going to buy one of the new 2x really soon though, even if it would perhaps be better on the mk II - but that seems too much money for what you get extra).

So yes, they are at a silly price point which no doubt will come down over time. Also if you do think of getting one be sure 300mm is enough - see Colin for why the 500mm is better for a lot of wildlife if you can afford it and handle the weight (although I'm told the mk I is impossible to get and the mk II not here yet). BTW I don't have one of the 500s and am unlikely to ever be able to justify it short of a lottery win.

[Mark]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

Your problem is going to be finding a new 300 f2.8 mk I to buy, they look to be in very short supply.

I to have been looking at getting one, but over the last few month the number of shops selling them has gone right down, looking on Camera Price Buster we are at two shops only now, and the MK II will not be here until at least December.

Calumet Photographic £3675.00
Mifsuds £4199.00

[SamFisher]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

A lot of interesting replies.

Trevoreast
I would be shooting mostly wildlife - birds in particular.
I have the 300 f4 + 1.4 extender on the 1D3 all the time this gives me a FL of 420mm f5.6
Still not long enough with out having to crop a fair bit although I am kinda pleased with the results.
I did think about a Mk1 2x extender but this would cut the lens to f8 and as a lot of woodland locations are in fairly low light this wouldn't be a great move as I would have to crank up the ISO.

Looks like I'm just going to have to wait.
I'd dearly love the 500 f4 but that is even more silly money - perhaps someday!!

Thanks for your input folks

Mike

[DrJon]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

To give you an idea of why focal length is king I nipped out earlier and shot this with a Canon 300 2.8 AND a 1.4x Extender mk II. The distance was about 5.9m, so not exactly in the next county...



The good news is with modern cameras you can always crop closer...



But that was at about SIX paces!

John

[DrJon]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

BTW I did those in about 90 secs flat, so I make no apologies if they aren't perfect (I'd probably crop the second one a lot more if this wasn't a lens demo, although I do like the way the OOF branches frame the subject in the first one - note the lens is wide open at F4 so the subject is in the middle where it'll be the sharpest possible as I know I'll have to crop anyway). I actually went out as the Red Arrows were flying around my house, but they of course left the second I went out, so I settled for this...

It was pretty dull, so these were both at ISO 800. Hand-held at 1/250, so the stabiliser was being useful!

[Derry-Canon Fan]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

I have a Tokina 300mm 2.8 lens, excellent build quality, as usual for Tokina, produces excellent results, a wee bit slow on the focus sometimes, but not too bad.
Use mine for flood lit sports over here, and always produces excellent results, and even on dull days when I know my 100mm-400mm will struggle.

Had considered a converter also for it.

[DrJon]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

Actually I should probably collect up my answers from my previous posts to make it clear what I'm saying:

(1) I think for 95% of photography the mk I is just as good as the mk II (since they are both basically awesome), so I'm with you that the mk II really isn't worth the money (IMHO). I know getting either 500 f4 is nearly impossible right now, so I'm not surprised the same is true for the 300s.

(2) You say you shoot birds amongst other things, if you are thinking of getting one then for all that money it is worth being sure the 300 is long enough. (There is also the issue of which camera you are using, but that's another very long post I've already written elsewhere and would just clutter this up.)

(3) On that subject adding the 1.4x extender (I personally think the mk III isn't much of an improvement on the mk II, and again has a big price increase) gets you to 420mm f4 and still really good quality. But going further will need the 2x and I find with the mk II you will lose you some of that quality. Even the 2x mk III is clearly not quite up there (see the MTF charts). I do plan to swap my 2x for a mk III real soon and see if it is an improvement, as it does look like a good step up from the mk II. (I usually try to stick to no more than the 1.4x, but occasionally stuff is just too far away).

I'm sorry I can't help on comparing the 3rd party lenses, but if you can get a mk I Canon and it's long enough for you I don't think you'll be disappointed. I will say I think the Sigma and Tamron ones aren't stabilised, and this really helps in framing the shot as it's easier to see what is going on.

Oh, and I think Calumet is a good firm if you are thinking of shopping there.

Whatever you do - good luck and enjoy!

John

[SamFisher]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

Thanks again everyone for your valued input

My mate came round last night with his Nikon 300 2.8 + 2x converter. The weight was awesome but his images seemed to lack contrast and looked a bit flat. A few tweaks in LR3 and they were almost acceptable.
I took similar images with my 300 f4 + 1.4 extender and I although I had to crop more I think my Canon images beat his Nikon images hands down.

At the moment I am struggling to capture decent images of Wrens as they always seem to be in the shade and a tad jittery. This is where the thoughts of a faster lens came to mind.
Perhaps I should concentrate on my fieldcraft technique a bit more.

I'm between a rock and a hard place at the moment.
I can sell my never used 70-200L f4 non IS and 300 f4 to go towads a 2.8 but if I do sell and then can't get a 2.8 then I'm goosed.
I have always got my 100-400 to fall back on but it seems to produce better images on my 5D2 than on my 1D3 which I prefer using for wildlife.

I think deep down I think I should concentrate more on what I've got rather than what I'd like.
I like the freedom of hand holding my 1D3 and 300 f4 - something I wouldn't be able to do with a 2.8.

In the meantime you can see my images on Flickr most if not all are cropped to give you an idea of the type of shots I enjoy taking.
All the EXIF is complete

http://www.flickr.com/photos/27554645@N05/

or my website

https://www.mstphoto.zenfolio.com

Thanks again
Mike

[DrJon]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

A passing thought, that I've mentioned before... if you aren't shooting at high ISO a 7D would put about 50% more pixels (linearly, over 2x by area) over a bird or other object that was entirely contained in the "APS" part of a Full Frame image, so get you closer for a lot less money than a bigger white lens. Plus you can rent one and see if you like it. (I did consider this, but I like my 5DmkII too much to buy a body just for that one use, as all the rest of the time I wouldn't want a 7D with me instead of the 5DmkII.)

There's lots of posts on the subject on this page:

http://www.eos-magazine-forum.com/showthread.php?3779-Image-Quality-Full-Frame-v-Crop-Sensor-!/page3

Basically I'm saying a 300 f4 + 1.4x extender + 7D is pretty much the same (provided the subject is in the APS area of a FF sensor and the light is good) as having a 630mm f5.6 lens on a 5DmkII or 1DsmkIII. The 1DmkIII has even bigger pixels (7.2um) so a 7D would be like having a 709mm f5.6 lens on a 1DmkIII (from the point of what each pixel covers).

John

[colin C]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

The 300mm f2.8 is my favourite lens. Fabulous quality, probably Canon's fastest autofocus lens and it's quite light (compared to my 500mm f4).

I have tried the new ones on a Canon Pro Day and there does seem to be some slight quality advantage, but most of us probably wouldn't notice it. Where the advantage does lie is the dramatic weight reduction. It felt like the new 500mm weighed no more than my existing 300mm and of course, the new 300mm was even lighter.

Current prices are silly, but as usual the actual price will stay nearer the retail price until the honeymoon period is over and those that must have it, regardless of price, have been satisfied. Then the prices will start to drop until they reach some equilibrium. Unfortunately, following the tsunami and consequent production problems, deliveries have been delayed, so it will take even longer for the prices to drop.

When deliveries start, there is usually a batch of mint ones for sales for a couple of months. A friend bought one a few months ago which was absolutely mint, all boxes etc for £1,600 and that also included a 1.4 MKII extender.

I am never that lucky!

Colin

[DrJon]

Re: Some 300 f2.8 questions??

Colin - do you mean mint old ones secondhand? Plus please stop talking about the new 500 being lighter, it's not good for my bank balance...
Oh, and were you at Islington?