Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

[Paulstw]

Saw today a very small announcement for the Nikon D750. I had to wonder if it was a new camera or not because it wasn't really a big thing. Turns out, yes it's a mid range FF DSLR sitting in the middle of the D610 and D810. If this is what Nikon class as mid-range, then where does the 5D Mark III sit?

I must admit that the D810 looks extremely tempting to me after watching Tony Northrups video about switching from Canon. With 3rd party lenses becoming increasingly popular these days, are Canon resting on their history and just drip feeding their customers or what?

For instance, how long have people been waiting for the 7D Mark II? With the rumoured specs, it's not lighting many peoples fires. The D750 is FF and also has crop (DX) mode like the others I think. I just don't know why Canon don't include this in their FF cameras.

Canon are starting to feel a lot like Apple for me. All the hype but at the end of the day, marginal upgrades to previous models.

How do you feel about it?

Paul

[kelly200269]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

Interesting post Paul.
I think the rise of EVIL/Mirroless cameras have really got Nikon & Canon 'spooked'. I genuinely don't think they know what to do anymore.
For any piece of kit to take hold in the market, there has to be a 'killer app'. Canon had it with the 5DII and HD video, and Nikon had it with the 36MP D800. Sony now have it with the A7S and its incredible low-light performance.
The problem is that UNLESS you're a wage-earning Pro (or on your way to that, probably like yourself), OR an amateur with a very specific interest (usually sports and/or wildlife) then something like an OM-D E-M5 or even a GH4 would do everything that our big, bulky DSLR's do in a package that is much more convenient to use. And I won't even talk about 4K and the GH4...
Away from the needs of these people, I think the 'big boys' are finding it more difficult to find relevance in the marketplace these days. I personally feel that Canon is starting to major more on the cinema side, with 'breakthrough' products such as the 1DC and C300/C500, that are truly democratising film-making. I think the stills side is basically a market most major camera manufacturers can play to, and that's the problem, with EVIL taking an ever increasing market share.
I think both Nikon and Canon need to focus (excuse the pun) on things that other manufacturers can't do - it's just finding out what those things are?

[paul linton]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

Must admit Canon need to up their game as they seem to be getting a little left behind in this fast changing digital camera age.

Nikon/Sony and a whole host of other manufacturers can push the bounders of technology each time they release a new product,I'm not ready to change as I'm still happy with my gear, would just be nice if Canon was at the forefront and not a few years behind what everybody else can produce! The time Canon had to develop the 7D MKII it should have been jaw dropping new exciting but alas it looks already dated to what Nikon and the others are producing cropped sensors are a thing of the past as Paul said if you have to have a cropped sensor give us both options.

Paul

[AndyMulhearn]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

I saw that too and did some reading around it and I have to admit to sharing some of your concerns, although I do think that Nikon are in danger of going the other way and releasing so much so frequently that they're in danger of confusing their market. For example the D750 is positioned as an aspirational FF camera for crop sensor users. Eh? What does that make the D600/D610? Having said that, the 750D seems a similar spec to the 5D mk III and the list prices have it costing the same with a kit lens as the 5D does body only. Add a newer sensor and more advanced AF and if you're looking to go full frame and don't fancy the 6D then switching to the D750 looks a more cost effective option. Particularly if you can trade in your APS-C gear as well.

The delay on the 7D is pretty daft IMHO. They should have released a mk II before I bought my mk I in July last year. Yes there's a danger that a top of the line APS-C camera with better high ISO performance will take sales from the 5D mk III and in some extreme cases the 1DX but there are also a lot of people that really do want a more capable sensor than the current 7D offering. And they may just look at Nikon for their upgrade particularly with, as you say, the cost of swapping using decent quality third-partly lenses now being an option. If Canon's position is that they don't want a 7D mk II to cannibalise sales of the 5D then they're being stupid because they're not getting sales of 7D mk IIs to people who are fed up with the limitations of the D7100. Just my humble opinion...

I don't really understand how DX mode works, whether you see a cropped image in the viewfinder or it's just cropped when you take the shot. If the latter, it seems a bit of a gimmick to me as you can just as easily crop in PP. Unless you get faster frame rates and of course more shots on a card.

So in a way, yes I think you're right. Canon may well be drip-feeding us small upgrades to keep us interested. Unless of course the rumours of a 7D mk II are just that and nothing new appears next week...

[Paulstw]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

Glad I'm not the only one that thinks I'm being had lol. I spoke to another Scottish landscape guy called John G Moore. He switched from Canon to Nikon for his landscape and portrait work and using just Tamron Lenses and he said that he'd never go back. I'm seeing a lot more photojournos with Nikon gear here too. Increasingly in fact. Maybe it's cause it's cheaper I don't know. Either way It certainly feels like there's a shift in the market a wee bit.

I fear that the rumoured specs of the 7D markII would have been award winning and a game changer 1-2 years ago but by the time anyone gets their hands on it maybe not. Personally I'd rather just buy a used 1DIV.

The D750 certainly plonks itself on top of the 5D III and it'll be a while before any real comparisons come out, but you can't help but feel that you're paying for a badge these days with Canon.

[kelly200269]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

Without digressing to the whole Nikon-Canon debate, I still think the 'quality' is there with Canon. I suppose it all depends what you need or want your gear to do? And you can't forget that the most important part of any kit you choose to capture an image is the glass (apart from your eye!) And Canon still delivers. My jaw still drops at what my 300mm can deliver on 8.2MP, and I think that's where the strength of the system lies - in the glass.
People often say don't change your camera body UNLESS it doesn't do what you need it to anymore, which I think is sensible advice otherwise you just get sucked into a never-ending cycle of 'upgrades', some of which you may be left scratching your head trying to find the benefit of.
The D810 may be a 'killer' body, and may produce exceptional resolution for those people who 'need' such things. But if I can't stick my 85mm on it, then I'm not bothered. And I suspect the glass is what keeps people with their respective systems.

[Paulstw]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

I agree, it's the glass that's keeping Canon at the top. Red rings and white coatings helping a wee bit too lol.

Don't get me wrong, I think my 5DIII operates well in all conditions once I got used to it. It's just that new tech like the highlight control in the D750 sounds pretty cool. Almost like Canon are too scared to break new ground. Stick with what you know and what works type thing.

[kelly200269]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

At the end of the day, we'll always be 'kids in a sweet shop', in awe of the next big thing to come along lol
I'd love to be in Photokina this month to try a few new toys out. I'll never grow up...

[the black fox]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

my my part i think that nikon have gone to far with there range of bodies ,tending to be like the computer market of a few years back i.e what you buy this week has been superseded by next week .and there are lots of quality issues with there cameras that you don't here about .i think they have a problem suppression deal with there retailers ,but my two d7100 both broke on me after a few thousand shutter counts ,my d200 and d300s both suffered from the grip rubbers coming off and needed replacing ,the d7000 suffered from setting knobs turning willy nilly plus it locked up just when you didn't want it to and needed switching on and off to clear it .
and that was just my cameras ,recently the d600 suffered oily shutters and still does ,owners in the isa have been offered all sorts of deals to drop there law suites even free upgrades i.e the d610 . the latest d810 were all recalled due to white spots ? .
the grass is not always greener paul nikon lenses are ultra heavy and expensive and lack the quality of canon lenses to. remember with four of us in the house we have tried most combos and lenses over the years .

the specs on the 7d2 are till the release date just RUMORS hopefully we should know by monday . if its not up to scratch all my options are still open though .lens wise the new sigma 150-600 C looks like one to watch .

[Cyberman]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

Interesting discussion, and I'll avoid the Nikon vs. Canon and get to the drip feed part.
Its a good point, and Nikon may well be trying to steal a march on Canon by releasing the bodies they have in recent months.
But, I agree with the comments about quality. I would rather have a longer delay between updates and get a product that is reliable and delivers on its promise, than frequent updates that deliver confusing market messages or poor quality.

Dont misunderstand me, i am not saying Nikon have given confusing messages or have poor products. Its simply that I'd rather see Cannon deliver good reliable working products than rush them out and have recalls or feature gaps.

It must be tough for both Nikon and Canon, they invest heavily in developing a DSLR, they want to recoup that money so need to sell as many as they can for as long as they can. But the market (us!) always wants new products with new innovation.

My problem is I am sucker for new technology, if Canon release a Canon 5D mark IV then I can see myself hoping I have a decent Christmas bonus or that money is left over from the building work!!
Although if I am honest with myself my 5D does everything very well, and my skill levels really don't warrant an upgrade just yet.

As for changing to Nikon, I cannot even contemplate that due to the extraordinary cost to change all my kit.
And to be honest whilst I know they work well and friends at camera club have proved they are good, i just cannot get on with the menu's, they just never seem intuitive. And I've been helping people who have both older and newer models, but again I admit thats probably familiarity with the Canon through use that gives that impression.
But to give that statement some balance, I do like some of the Nikon info displays. Things like the visual aperture display on the info screen are great aids when trying to explain it to people.

[Paulstw]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

It will be interesting to see what Canon come forward with. Lately it's been old lenses with IS attached and a bigger price tag, and rebel bodies with little change and all pro-sumer bodies eventually leading you to needing the flagship. For folk like me who need to put out a lot of expenses for everything over and above the gear It's hard to swallow Canons model.

[jk224]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

lens wise the new sigma 150-600 C looks like one to watch .

What looks eye catching about the new Sigma is that it appears there are 2 new 150-600 lenses, the Sports and the Contemporary. That is an interesting twist.

What has annoyed me about Canon over the years is that when new cameras come out there is always something missing that we, the users, were expecting to see, as if Canon left it out deliberately so that we would buy their next camera, and there doesn't seem to be anything really ground breaking any more, like the Eye controlled autofocus when that came out (although dual pixel technology comes pretty close). I too would rather Canon left it a bit longer between cameras to make sure they were as up-to-date as possible and everything worked correctly, although 5 years is far too long for a camera at the 7D level.

[Tigger]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

I'm going to be shopping for a big zoom soon and clearly we are not going to be seeing a new 100-400 so will be looking other makes so the new 150-600 sigma looks interesting and probably a lot cheaper than the new L canon one would have been

[kelly200269]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

It's good to see Canon lens prices dropping a little (depending on what lens you buy, of course) but we mustn't forget that a couple of years ago they put their prices up massively, because of a so-called 'currency adjustment'!? Admittedly Canon weren't unique in this, and a lot of Japanese manufacturers massively put up prices of goods made, and imported from Japan. For example, the prices of Esoteric SACD players increased by thousands overnight. I think that might also have explained the exorbitant difference in price between the outgoing 5DII and the 5DIII as it was launched.
But I think what's worrying is the steep upward trend of lens prices, fuelled IMO by EVIL camera manufacturers. For example, the Canon nifty-fifty is under £100, but to buy a 50mm-equivalent M43 lens costs £300-400 and people are paying it. Most ILC lenses are very expensive compared to their DSLR equivalents, but I think they're setting a new, accepted price-point for lenses, one that is now MUCH higher than it was a few years ago.

[the black fox]

Re: Are Canon turning into Apple by drip feeding?

The way things are going and I have just read a rant re this elsewhere it seems the rest of the world tends to pay more for there camera gear than the good old u.s.a ,with most makers tending to price there goods lower there ,with the u.k being the worst for rip off prices ,it's been suggested that it would be worth having a mid week break in New York just to buy gear .also of note was a snippet of info that if we did decide to import a camera via the states in theory it should be free of import duties ,not vat though .this only applies to cameras though .
It's all wrong it should be a level playing field but it's obviously not