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**Nathaniel** · 12-10-2014, 19:26

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

Personally I am bothered with noise as it tends to make the photo blurry and useless-IMHO. I will try to post one or two pics taken with the Canon 100D,in church,recently and the pictures were actually useless to me. I like to clear noise in camera itself and since the advent of the 6D, noise is a thing of the past for me- when I take photos in low light.

**Woolley** · 12-10-2014, 20:08

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

I'd agree with the original post, I'm not too worried by a bit of noise if the shot's worth it, and at normal resolution it's usually not noticeable.

**Nathaniel** · 12-10-2014, 20:50

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

shows how noise makes the photo "useless" IMHO

PLEASE SEE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE 3 PICS BELOW AND THE ONES POSTED UNDER PEOPLE AND PORTRAITS- MUSIC FROM THE NORTH OF ENGLAND.

**Nathaniel** · 12-10-2014, 20:53

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

another two just to illustrate "noise"

(i)

(ii)

**the black fox** · 12-10-2014, 21:40

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

hmmmm this really is a hard one ,for a starter i NEVER EVER apply in camera noise reduction it plays games with the files .and as most of the time i shoot wildlife often with dark murky backgrounds behind the noise can be distracting .so yes i do use noise reduction software but NEVER to the whole picture as some seem to do .
i pre-process my files usually using apeture3 on the mac this gives me the right white balance ,contrast,light levels etc that i had in my mind when i pressed the shutter ,i then crop to the size that has the most impact for the subject In my view (that again is personal choice) i then load a 16 bit tiff file into PS6 and open it .using the magic wand i encompass the subject matter (bird or ?) and layer it ,noise reduction via a plug in filter is then applied to only the background layer .then the two layers are re-united and sharpening is applied to the subject matter alone to make it stand out .any pro photographer that doesn't work along these lines is either telling porkies to keep there work above us mere mortals or using cameras and lenses that again mere mortals can only drool over .
its all subjective really and i can only apply my comments to the type of work i do if my forte' was landscapes or nudes i'm sure my methods would be different .heres one from today using the method outlined above
duck !!!!! by blackfox wildlife and nature imaging, on Flickr

**rcarca** · 12-10-2014, 21:58

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

YOU MIGHT HAVE SEEN THAT AN EARLIER VERSION OF THIS POST REFERS TO JEFF'S PHOTOS AS "STINKING" OF COURSE IT SHOULD HAVE READ "STONKING", A WORD APPLE AUTOCORRECT DOES NOT LIKE!!!

Nat - I was wondering if you could let us know the EXIF - particularly the shutter speed and ISO? It would be really interesting to know.

Jeff - That is a stonking picture (when aren't yours stonking pictures???!!!) and an interesting approach - which I do not follow, but will try. I was just a little surprised to hear him say "apply no noise reduction - it isn't worth it because it just softens a picture". I have put that in quote marks, it wasn't exactly the words he said, but close enough.

Here is a side-by-side (or at least one above the other!):

2Y2A8345-9.jpg by RCARCARCA, on Flickr

#WWPW2014 London by RCARCARCA, on Flickr

What do you think? (Not of the photograph, but of the noise reduction...

Richard

**jk224** · 12-10-2014, 22:03

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

Most of the time I'm looking at the pictures I take on a 12 inch laptop, and rarely print beyond 10 by 8, quite often 7 by 5. I'm barely going to see noise even if it is there, so I don't let it bother me. To me, the image is more important than worrying about whether any noise is present. 20 odd years ago I sometimes used ISO 800 and 1600 film if necessary, and the grain produced by these was far more prominent than any noise I see now, but if it meant getting the picture that was all that mattered to me. I agree that sometimes there is far too much obsession with noise.

**kelly200269** · 13-10-2014, 07:11

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

I work with older bodies, where ISO 1600 MEANS ISO 1600 from the old film days ;) lol
When shooting at high-ISO, I do often get noise in dark portions of the image but DxO PRIME in Optics Pro 9 has literally been a life-saver for me. This type of processing has changed the way I shoot at high-ISO. If you have a new(er) body then you may not necessarily need this, unless you regularly 'push' the ISO.
But fundamentally, I think Scott has a valid point. If we're not careful we can get too fixated on 'pixel-peeping', when it's the overall image that's important. Large monitors don't particularly help either, as it's too easy to focus on any 'flaws', rather than appreciate the image as a whole.

**Nathaniel** · 13-10-2014, 08:38

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

Richard as requested I give below the Exif requested. All taken with the Canon 100D.Lens 24-105mm F4L

Picture 1 (presentation):- F6.3;TV80;ISO 12800

Picture 2 (single):-f 4.5;TV80;ISO 12,800

Picture 3 (Dean with the silver cup):- F 5.0;TV 80;ISO 12,800

Please compare this with my pictures under people, portraits etc taken with the Canon 6D. Exif can be see via Flickr.

**Tigger** · 13-10-2014, 08:42

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

I don't like to see noise and I have ignored images if its showing too much and not gone past a couple of attempts at loosing it in PP - although the 5D is much better at handling low light than my 7D was - But I still find myself looking for noise the moment that ISO starts creeping past 10k

**ColytonJohn** · 13-10-2014, 09:46

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

Nat,

ISO 12800 may be fine on a 6D but pushing it on your 100D.

DPReview said this of the 100D:
"Chroma noise is well-controlled, with little signs of smearing or banding until ISO 6400, although at these high ISO values, the 100D does rank behind the best of its APS-C rivals in terms of detail preservation and saturation. Image quality falls off noticeably by ISO 12,800 with noise suppression smearing fine detail. At its highest ISO sensitivity, the result is a very soft image with reduced color saturation that is best suited for web images or small prints."

Their comparison of ISO 12800 images shot on both a 100D and 6D shows the 6D is still crisp yet the 100D positively muddy.

Review here: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/cano...d-rebel-sl1/10

The 100D was designed to put, IIRC, the performance of a 650D into a smaller package; it has some fine characteristics but low ambient light shooting isn't one of them. I just think you've just been spoiled by the stunning high ISO performance of your 6D.

Oh, depending on lens and IS, maybe a TV of 80 is a tad slow too.

Cheers,
John

**paul linton** · 13-10-2014, 09:49

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

Noise has always been a problem in photography especially in the early cropped sensors, and only recently Canon cameras have started to get on top of the problems with the 1Dx/5DmkIII/6D/ and hopefully 7DmkII, The problem for me is i shoot in all different lighting conditions from mid afternoon (iso400)to floodlit (iso3200) even indoor events(iso8000) and when i eventually get finished i don't have time to sort the cleanup for removing the unwanted noise.

I wouldn't say i was fixated by noise just that If I wanted it in my images i would prefer to add it with P&P software if that is the effect i was after rather than spending time to remove it, and thankfully i can just about achive this with the 5DmkIII.
So hopefully for me in the next few years there'll be virtually no noise to speak of just an icon in the sub menu to add artificial noise if ever required.

Paul

**rcarca** · 13-10-2014, 10:19

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

A really interesting discussion.

Nat, I tend to agree that ISO12000 is likely to be pushing it for the 100D, not that I have used one, and I suspect the main issue you have in those shots is camera shake. But you are right they are very soft for whatever reason.

I like Jeff's approach. I suspect it will add to the workflow time! Not that that is a bad thing necessarily.

I recall shooting with Kodachrome 25. No grain there, but especially in B&W we used to enjoy the graininess of high speed film and would sometimes process to make it even more visible.

There is something of a fear of being declared an apostate for ignoring noise! Will be interesting to experiment with some prints as well.

Richard

**Nathaniel** · 13-10-2014, 10:52

Re: Are we all fixated by noise?

Originally posted by rcarca View Post

A really interesting discussion.

Nat, I tend to agree that ISO12000 is likely to be pushing it for the 100D, not that I have used one, and I suspect the main issue you have in those shots is camera shake. But you are right they are very soft for whatever reason.

I like Jeff's approach. I suspect it will add to the workflow time! Not that that is a bad thing necessarily.

I recall shooting with Kodachrome 25. No grain there, but especially in B&W we used to enjoy the graininess of high speed film and would sometimes process to make it even more visible.

There is something of a fear of being declared an apostate for ignoring noise! Will be interesting to experiment with some prints as well.

Richard

Richard, I did shoot from close quarters and the lens I used had IS (24-105mm) and thought that TV 80 would be sufficient. The moral for me is that I won't use the 100D for low light photography when I have got the 6D for that purpose.

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