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    Flickr experiment, the results.

    Not so long ago we were discussing the relative merits, or lack of them, with regards to Flickr groups.

    I said that I found them to be quite anti-social, in that few if any members actually 'talk' to each other, but just use it as a themed 'exhibition board', as opposed to a group in the true sense of the word.

    A month ago, I launched a two part experiment on Flickr. Part 1 being the creation of new group, and Part 2 joining an existing group.

    Part 1, was to test the water with regards to people joining a Flickr group with the idea of sharing their interest/enthusiasm in amateur photography, as opposed to just showing off their images.

    The group description read:

    "Not just another place to post your latest image, but a group for amateur photography enthusiasts, whether novice or experienced, to share their hobby with like-minded people. Discuss equipment, and techniques, both capture and image processing. Share images, and both give and receive friendly critique if required."

    and was aimed at people in my part of East Anglia, where there is no shortage of people posting to Flickr groups.

    To date, not a single person has joined the group, which is a good indication that people only see Flick groups as a exhibition board. I will shortly close the experimental group.

    Part 2, was to test the social aspect of a Flickr group, and to study whose images receive comments, and or were favourited.

    The lack of any any social atmosphere was quickly established, by introducing myself to the group in the discussion section. Here, as expected, the response was zero.

    Next I looked at the people who received comments on their images, and commented on the images of others. It was quite apparent, that out of 600+ registered members, those receiving and making comments, were the same people most all of the time. In fact they appeared to be a part of a 'clique'.

    What IMO, were in some cases average to poor images, receiving favourable comments from the 'clique' members, while other, again IMO, damn good images posted by non-clique members were ignored.

    I should say that one or two of the 'clique' members are very good photographers, producing some very good shots, with the less good members 'sucking up to them'.

    For me, the two experiments pretty much proved what I had long thought about Flickr groups, that they are simply an exhibition board, and a warehouse for storing images.

    Thank goodness for this forum.

    Dave
    Dave

    Website:- https://davesimaging.wixsite.com/mysite

    #2
    Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

    Interesting study Dave and TBH one that I've thought also

    Like a lot I use flickr but as you pointed out to show images, but I do post comments on people that I follow and sometimes this will turn into discussions but its never an involved one similar to here

    I actually think the biggest problem is people have so many outlets for theres images its hard to build on any type of online friendship with other photographers and the flickr world is a very sterile one, this is were forums can come into there own as part of the enjoyment is getting to know your fellow snappers

    Its a very odd online world we have Dave ...
    :- Ian

    5D Mk III, 24-105 / 70-200 f2.8 L / 100-400 Mk II / 100 macro / 16-35 L / 11-24 L / 1.4 & 2x converters and a bad back carrying it all ;o)

    :- https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotosespana/

    Comment


      #3
      Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

      Talking to another 'long time' amateur photographer, it seems that when Flick was first established, and specific groups sprung up within it. that it was used much like a forum.

      I never knew it like this this, so can't comment on what it was once like.

      However, it seems that as time went on, it grew to be more and more sterile, and pretty much void of any atmosphere.

      Whether that is what the creators of Flickr wanted, or expected. I wouldn't know, but its certainly what they have now.

      Forums like this, in fact especially this one, are exactly as a 'group' should be. We have a diverse range of expertise and knowledge, encapsulated in a very pleasant atmosphere. One where people aren't reluctant to voice their opinion on posted images, for fear of getting their head bitten off. As is the case on some other forums.

      Unfortunately, we are geographically wide-spread, in some cases, very wide-spread, which means we are restricted to sharing our common interest via cyber-space.

      As Alan (Parsen66) said, he is a lone photographer, and would love to have a 'photo-buddy with whom to go out on location with. I'm sure that there are many of us here that feel the same way. I certainly do.

      A remote a chance as it was, I thought that by creating the Flickr group that I did, aimed at my own geographical area, might have led to some local tog friends. But hey, how disillusioned was I to think that Flickr was the place to find them.

      Dave
      Dave

      Website:- https://davesimaging.wixsite.com/mysite

      Comment


        #4
        Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

        hmmm as a fairly old hand on flickr 6 years plus ,i can remember it when it was the place to post your pics ,to develope friendships ,learn from others etc ,unfortunately the heavy handed attitude of the owners in just making unwanted changes caused a lot of members and old friends to look for elsewhere to display there art .
        the camaraderie is only really just starting to recover ,but the only way to do it on there is to add contacts ,comment on there photos ,put your own photos in groups with specific interests i.e birds ,animals ,landscapes etc .for instance one of my wildlife friends put a view of snowdonia up yesterday ,its a very mundane shot in my view but whereas he normally gets a few comments and a few faves ,this particular pic had over 80 faves by this morning .

        the forum is the place to really get proper feedback but i still like and use flickr its been good to me ,with views of my work having been shown on t.v spring/and autumn watch ,published in books ,magazines and actually leading to a nice sale of a photo for a c.d cover in japan ,my son likewise has had the same with nearly a grands worth of sales to date .

        as with anything you have to work at it .thats life B.T.W have you seen this on flickr

        Comment


          #5
          Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

          Originally posted by the black fox View Post
          as with anything you have to work at it .thats life B.T.W have you seen this on flickr
          https://flic.kr/p/pZUqEu
          ... the fire is going well now
          :- Ian

          5D Mk III, 24-105 / 70-200 f2.8 L / 100-400 Mk II / 100 macro / 16-35 L / 11-24 L / 1.4 & 2x converters and a bad back carrying it all ;o)

          :- https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotosespana/

          Comment


            #6
            Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

            In general, I'm not a fan of Flickr, I only use it for uploading pictures to share with specific others, I'm not particularly keen on its layout and browsing for pictures, I find it far too convoluted and complicated. However, one thing I have noticed, with Flickr and 500px, is that it's not so much about your photography, but in fact the number of people you follow, number of likes you give and general online personal publicity work, also have an almost naked girl helps. It's not so much about the quality of photography, which disappoints me, both as an amateur and someone passionate about photojournalism, but it appears to be about popularity or sexual appeal.
            Within in my Billingham Hadley Large: Canon EOS 550D [Gripped], EF 50mm f/1.8, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM, Tamron 18-270mm Di II VC PZD, EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM, Kenko Teleplus DG AF Extension Tubes [36+20+12] and Speedlite EX430 II.

            Redundant: EF-S 18-55mm lens f/3.5-5.6 IS II and EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS

            Comment


              #7
              Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

              Ah, that seems to be another facet to Flickr, the chance of finding fame and fortune, which if it works, as in yours and your Son's case Jeff, makes it very worthwhile. So congratulation to both of you on that achievement.

              I did see what I thought were some good wildlife shots (it is a wildlife group) posted by a new'ish member of the group, that received a zero response, whereas as other not so good images posted after hers, received comments plus Favs, from what I describe as the 'clique' members of the group. To me, that says it all.

              BTW, I like the festive video clip.

              Dave
              Dave

              Website:- https://davesimaging.wixsite.com/mysite

              Comment


                #8
                Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

                The thing is though Dave I believe it is similar with most "groups" and even forums in that it all depends how much that person participates themselves, responds to critique and even a polite thank you every now and again. Then she would I suppose become a clique member in your eyes?

                It takes a while to settle into the group / forum - you start by saying hello, etc, then you pluck up the courage to post a photo or two and take on board the advice given - hopefully saying thanks etc - if you forget to say thanks or respond nicely to comments then you will probably find that people stop offering their comments, then you pluck up the courage to start inputting your thoughts on someone elses photos (that was a hard one for me as Im no expert, but luckily here everyone is really good at taking on board all comments).

                If you dont participate, then you wont get the responses, if you do participate you then become part of that clique group.
                Andy
                Canon 700D, Canon 1100D
                EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS USM, EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II, EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM, EF 50mm F/1.8 II
                [Wishlist: EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro]

                Comment


                  #9
                  Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

                  I did introduce myself Andy, but received a zero response, so that was a nice friendly start.

                  I then posted three wildlife images, that had been well received here, but again, a zero response.

                  Of all the photos that I looked at on this, and other Flickr groups, I can't say that I have seen a single instance of any constructive critique. Just a lot of mutual back-patting, which in many cases, even to the most in-experienced eye, isn't justified.

                  I'm sure that if I looked long and hard enough, I could find some meaningful comments, but I haven't found any yet.

                  I remain convinced that Flickr groups, at least those that I have seen, are about as sociable as a neighbours cat that chooses your garden to crap in.

                  Dave
                  Dave

                  Website:- https://davesimaging.wixsite.com/mysite

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

                    :) LOL
                    Andy
                    Canon 700D, Canon 1100D
                    EF 24-105mm f/4.0L IS USM, EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II, EF 70-300mm f/4-5.6 IS USM, EF 50mm F/1.8 II
                    [Wishlist: EF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro]

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

                      What IMO, were in some cases average to poor images, receiving favourable comments from the 'clique' members, while other, again IMO, damn good images posted by non-clique members were ignored.
                      I think that's the case with many online image hosts and forums. I used to have images on 500px, but after reading a blog from a guy who 'experimented' in a similar way that you've outlined above, I decided that it wasn't for me. That said, I now have a lot of images on Flickr and I can see it moving in a similar direction.
                      Canon EOS 5D Mark III, EF 135mm F/2 L, EF 16-35mm F/4 L, EF 50mm f/1.8, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM, EF 28mm f/2.8
                      http://www.aveyardphotography.co.uk
                      https://www.flickr.com/photos/aveyardphotography
                      https://www.facebook.com/AveyardPhotography

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

                        I keep my own personal Flickr site running Andy, as its a convenient way show photos to friends and families, on a smartphone or tablet when away from home.

                        Its also a convenient way of posting photos onto the forum, by copying the BB code.

                        Dave
                        Dave

                        Website:- https://davesimaging.wixsite.com/mysite

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

                          Originally posted by Dave_S View Post
                          I keep my own personal Flickr site running Andy, as its a convenient way show photos to friends and families, on a smartphone or tablet when away from home.

                          Its also a convenient way of posting photos onto the forum, by copying the BB code.

                          Dave
                          I'm sure for most thats the only reason they use flickr, not to get real reviews on your images or build friendships, its like the "likes" I would much sooner someone comment rather than just clicking a like that just takes one click .. I suppose its like people that say they have hundreds of FB friends ... are they really friends? just because they tick "like" when you post an image or some comment -
                          :- Ian

                          5D Mk III, 24-105 / 70-200 f2.8 L / 100-400 Mk II / 100 macro / 16-35 L / 11-24 L / 1.4 & 2x converters and a bad back carrying it all ;o)

                          :- https://www.flickr.com/photos/fotosespana/

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

                            i just looked up my followers on flickr i have 223 actual listed followers ,that means people whose photos i see and comment on on a regular basis and who i either know due to the type of photography ,or who have commented on mine regularly in the past so are deemed worth returning the favour ,also friends and family and also members of forums (here and elsewhere ) that i regularly inter-act with .

                            as well as that i have 1473 people that follow me ,i.e that wish to view my work as its posted .i only allow people on the bottom list to join the top list after viewing there profiles and type of photography ,so if a top rate wildlife photographer wants to join the A list then i would add them instantly . if it was some weirdo in the far east that didn't follow my interests they stay on the B list .the only exceptions being swedish type models with good assets .

                            its there to use to your advantage i wonder how many of you actually have used the contacts list to add to your pleasure on there and also take the time to comment on other peoples work and help where needed either by direct comment or flickrmail .it can be time consuming but the formula is there to use so why not use it to your advantage .

                            the one thing that really makes me laugh is when you suddenly get an EXPLORE photo ,you also get dozens of people per day wanting to be your contact ,probably hoping the fame will rub off on them ,and even thats rather funny a couple of years ago i had a spate of explores on there (currently i have 280+ ) and i said to my friend as we walked along the beach i wonder if i picked up that abandoned plastic kiddies spade and stuck it in the beach whether it would make explore ,it did .never laughed so much for ages .

                            there ya go found it ,sorry its a nikon pic but needs must
                            abandonment (EXPLORED) by blackfox wildlife and nature imaging, on Flickr
                            Last edited by the black fox; 04-12-2014, 11:32.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Re: Flickr experiment, the results.

                              An interesting insight to the way you use Flickr Jeff, and from you previous comments it has obviously worked to your advantage. Both in terms of contacts, and financially. So all credit to you for that.

                              For me, I have no aspirations with my photography, with regards to financial gain, or recognition, but respect those who succeed with this.

                              I'm just an enthusiastic amateur of average ability, who enjoys the challenge of enhancing his skills and knowledge of photography, and forums, especially this one are a great asset in this respect.

                              What I enjoy most, is being among like-minded and friendly people, being able to offer constructive advice where I can, and to receive the same from others.

                              That's what I enjoyed most about the camera club that I belonged to, until it was taken over by the competition fanatics, when I and others left.

                              I saw Flickr as perhaps being an extension of forums like this one, and by creating or joining a group that was relative to my local area, would be more of a local photographic community, so to speak.

                              However, I found Flickr groups to be very insular, sterile, and no more than a photo exhibition board. At least those related to my part of the country are.

                              Where there are comments made, they are almost universally 'back-patting one liners', like "great image" with no reason as to why they think that.

                              Last night I did comment on one of the images posted by the new lady member, that I referred to earlier in this 'thread'. I took the time to say why I liked the shot, and added suggestion of as to what I thought would improve one area of the shot. She was really appreciative, and I think somewhat surprised at, 1. getting a response, and 2. having a response that said something more than "nice image". From waht I have seen, something totally out of character on Flickr.

                              BTW, I later had a look at her own Flickr site, and it very evident that her main interest was wildlife photography, with some nice examples of her work.

                              I would have invited her over here, but she is a Nikon user.

                              Dave
                              Dave

                              Website:- https://davesimaging.wixsite.com/mysite

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