Wireless Flash Trigger

[Dave_S]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

Steve, you are a veritable 'mine of information'

I did note after I mentioned it, that the YN560lll didn't list the 5D Mklll as a compatible camera, only the Mk1 amd Mk2, so this did 'ring an alarm bell'.

The YN622C does seem to enjoy very good feedback around the forums, and from user reviews on the likes of Amazon.

I'm a bit confused about the 430EXll not supporting HSS, as the manual quotes it "as provided".

I haven't dismissed the optical link, although as I understand it, it only offers limited facilities, compared to 2.4GHz wireless.

I think what you are also saying is that I should stick with the Canon flash guns, as opposed to other brands.

In which case, it would seem to make very good sense, to grab another 430EXll while the cash back offer is still on.

The final question that then remains, is whether go for the YN ST-E2 (Canon option overpriced), or the YN622.

Dave

[S_J_P]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

Dave, I've been through the process you're contemplating and have made mistakes along the way before settling on a set-up which I like, it's always nice to pass that knowledge on

You're right - the 430 EX II is HSS compatible, I didn't think it was, but it is!

Optical triggering does have limitations (no HSS for one!) but will work with just two 'guns (so long as one is a master) allowing an upgrade to radio later thus spreading the cost. If you don't have a master 'gun already though this may be a deal breaker. The master YN 568ii I mentioned previously has an issue with evaluative metering when bounced (it underexposes) so I wouldn't recommend it as a cheap(er) master flash vs. a 600 EX-RT.

Whether to go marque-'gun of third party is always a matter for debate. My view is that if you're business depends on your equipment then there's no doubt Canon's own is the only option. If you're an enthusiastic amateur then perhaps the premium paid for Canon equipment is worthwhile. For an occasional user then I think third-party products are plenty reliable enough. Even when/if you decide that third-party is the right approach, there are still degrees of cost to consider, what are perceived to be the premium third-party makes (Metz, Sigma, Nissin, SunPak) or the cheaper third-party producers (Yongnuo and all those makes you only hear of once). Those premium third-party 'guns are generally so close to grey-import Canon prices, or Canon-cashback prices that I think it's worth making the small saving. The approach I took was to purchase a reliable Canon 'gun and then support it with three Yongnuo's and four YN 622c radio triggers for less than the cost of a second Canon flash, that way I get reliability and flexibility

I'd avoid the ST-E2 (Canon or Yongnuo), you're paying £70+ for a "master" controller with no flash output, for a similar outlay you could get three YN 622c's and have full control over two remote flashguns.

There's a review of YN 622c at FlashHavoc which might be useful to read.

[Dave_S]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

That's it, decision made, and order placed

Another 430EXll from Amazon at £192, with £40 cash back to come from Canon = £152.

YN622C triggers from amazon at £52, minus a £5 promotion = £48

Another quality flash gun, and a set of wireless triggers for £200, which I reckon is a pretty reasonable deal.

If I like the YN622C, then I can buy a single unit at £29, allowing me to have both flash guns off camera.

Dave

[S_J_P]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

Congratulations Dave! I'm sure you'll be more than pleased with the system you've selected

A few hints and tips:-

The 622c's remember their settings from last use, so label the transmitter (camera) and receiver (flash) units and configure them as desired (e.g. AF assist lamp operation, "mix mode" setting, zoom-lock setting, channel number, flash group etc) so you'll always start off with a known configuration.

Watch out for knocking the 622c's channel selector, if the remote flash ceases firing it's probably because you've switched channel. Conversely, tapping the Channel Selector is a quick was to disable/enable external flash (which isn't easily accomplished by canon's flash menus). I use this technique when using two bodies, the remote flash guns are set to Channel 2, I can then fire them using either camera set to Channel 2, or not fire them with a particular camera by switching to Channel 1, in either case the on-top flash will fire if enabled.

The flash atop the transmitter 622c acts a little differently to any other flashguns, it's zooming is set on-flash and is independent of the cameras flash-zoom setting (this is useful for camera-manually-set zooming of remote 'guns for background lighting and auto-zooming of the on-top 'gun to match focal length). It's cool to be able to zoom your flash heads remotely at will

Flashgun set flash exposure compensation is in addition to camera-set FEC, which is useful when using multiple guns. Whilst the on-top flash adopts Group A camera settings, you can dial up/down it's contribution on the flash itself, in effect giving a further flash group.

Note that the 622c's only access Canon's three flash groups (A,B, and C) and not the five groups of the 2012 cameras (including your 5Diii), to realise all five groups you need to employ Canon's radio system.

[Dave_S]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

Thanks for the 'hints & tips' Steve, very useful info indeed.

I think for my fairly simplistic needs, a two flash system will suit my needs, which is basically to have a bit more control over lighting, than using a single on-camera flash.

I can't, at least in the foreseeable future, see the limitation of 3 channels being an issue for me.

The only regret is that not having bought two 430EXll in a single transaction, as under Canon's Cash Back offer, this would have attracted a £35 bonus discount, on top of the £40 cash back on each Flash.

In addition, had I bought the first 430 from Amazon, instead of WEX, I would have saved another £19.

I have achieved some nice results with the 430EXll in E-TTL mode, and bounced off the ceiling, so I'm very happy with the 430, and so comfortable with the decision to add a second one to my setup.

The YN662C will add some nice flexibiltiy to where I place the flash guns.

Dave

[S_J_P]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

Don't have any regrets Dave, just use the two guns and enjoy crafting light :)

Good luck with your new acquisitions!

[Dave_S]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

Now have two YN622C units, and first impressions are good. They seem very reasonable build quality, and not at all 'Cheapo'. In fact given the price (£52 for two) I'd would say pretty good value for money.

Quite a bit smaller than I imagined them to be, which is good.

Only have the one 430EXll at the moment (the second one is on its way), but I fitted the 430EXll on one YN622C, off camera, and the other YN622C on the camera.

Have only tried it in full E-TTL at the moment, but it 'talks' to and fires the remote flash, and is very easy to set up and use. If it works as well with two flash guns, and in manual mode when I need it, which I'm sure it will, then I'll be a very satisfied customer.

My next move will probably be to buy another YN622C as a single unit, thus allowing me to have both flash guns off-camera.

Dave

[Dave_S]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

The second 430EXll arrived today, and a quick test with both flash guns mounted on a YN622C (one on-camera and on off-camera) showed both flashes firing simultaneously.

I have now asked Father Christmas for another single YN622C, so that I can have both flash guns off camera, which I think will provide some useful lighting opportunities.

Not having not done a lot of flash photography, despite the many years I've been into photography, and then only with an on-camera flash, usually using bounced flash, I need to get started on the 'learning curve', if I'm to get the best out of what I now have.

So, I guess I'll be looking a few book reviews.

Interestingly, the club I joined back in September, have a practical 'Studio Evening' at the end of January, with members invited to bring along their own 'kit'.

I should perhaps add that for those amateur photographers that delight in going along to studios and taking pictures of naked ladies , there won't be any.

Dave

[briansquibb]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

Simple solution is the Canon ST-E2 which will fire all Canon flashes

This does everything including high speed flash.

[Dave_S]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

It is simple Brian, but its an optical link, which has it's limitations compared to a 2.4GHz wireless link, and of course the flash has to be able to see the ST-E2, which can impose restrictions on where the flash guns are placed.

Another issue is that if you wanted to use it outdoors, optical systems are apparently unreliable.

Apart from the above, I have made my choice, and gone down the wireless route.

Dave

[S_J_P]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

I'm pleased to hear all's well with the 'guns and transceivers Dave

You'll master their operation in no time, and there's a wealth of video-tutorials on flash usage online which, along with Syl's book, will set you in good stead.

For me there are three things which I think about when using flash

1) Treat the ambient and flash exposure components separately to achieve the desired balance between the two (use shutter-speed adjustments which only affect the ambient light level)
2) Craft the shadows using flash to achieve your desired effect, either exaggerate them or reduce them
3) Light falls - Light looks more natural if it comes from above, and should complement ambient lighting (shadows running in two different directions confuse the viewer!)

Of course like all the best rules they're crying out to be broken, or at least bent but I find that considering these three ideas helps me immensely when using flash.

[Dave_S]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

Thanks Steve, your comments are duly noted.

The only issue with Syl Arena's book is that it was last published in December 2010, and as such is now three years behind current technology.

The basic principles of course won't have changed, but I guess gear will have moved on.

Dave

[Dave_S]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

Here's one that's at bit more up to date?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/David-Buschs-Photography-Digital-Guides/dp/128543465X/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386012001&sr=1-9&keywords=flash+photography

Dave

[briansquibb]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

I still use the old controller because the new style cameras are unsupported by the non Canon controllers You might be surprised to find then number of times the radio doesn't work remotely. There was significant delay in getting radio controllers supported on my 1DX and I am now wating for the 70D to be supported - but the E2 goes on regardless


That said for 99% of the time it does the job. I have radio controllers too - but have had to go back to the old way as the compatibles were not supported on new cameras for some time. I did weddings for many years with the 'old fashioned' controllers and never got hit with the issue of the flash not working outdoors.

The cost of making the 420/430 radio controlled is a factor to be considered as well - whereas the use of the E2 avoids it - as it will be for any flash that does not inbuilt radio (430/580 etc),

I have bought a set of 5500c LED lamps, always on, lights to get me round shortcomings of flash (such is insufficient light to get focus) and remote radio not working and other shortcomings of a flash based system.

[S_J_P]

Re: Wireless Flash Trigger

Here's one that's at bit more up to date?

http://www.amazon.co.uk/David-Buschs-Photography-Digital-Guides/dp/128543465X/ref=sr_1_9?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386012001&sr=1-9&keywords=flash+photography

Dave

Dave, I've read Syl's book and so it's the one I'd recommend despite being three years old. It covers your 430EX-II's, but not the newer 600EX-RT or ST-E3, though Syl has written a series of articles on CPN which cover the 600's specifics.

The Speedliters Handbook takes you through the basics of learning to see light, exposure, the nature of light, ambient light and blending flash with it before moving on to the Canon speedlite specifics of metering, optical wireless, mixing different light sources, and modifying flash light. It then returns to the practical aspects of portraiture, gelling, high-speed-sync, event photography, and strobe lighting. It's only the middle technical section which is potentially out of date, the rest is as valid today as it was when written.

I'm not suggesting that the book you've linked is in any way inferior, it's just that I think Syl's book is in me experience very good